Wobble woes!

[Socal_392]

Since BMW moved to all "drive by wire" I'd say the Jeep is actually more responsive ... technically .

LOL.....touche sir.

 

[Ryeboy86]

How common is the death wobble in the 392?

 

[guruman]

I would love to have your OEM box to port which would save down time if Guruman doesn’t want it.

@guruman, I’ll give you my OEM box if you want to drive to Denver . I swapped it for the full PSC kit a few years back when I moved to Currie Platinums and 40’s.

Somehow I missed this..... I bought a new box and ported it. @prodriquez thanks for the offer.

 

[guruman]

How common is the death wobble in the 392?

No more or less than the rest of the JL population as far as I can tell.

 

[Ryeboy86]

No more or less than the rest of the JL population as far as I can tell.

I've heard random stories of the death wobble, but not a lot.. So it's not to common?

 

[guruman]

Got the new steering box ported. It was pretty easy with the Apex porting kit. It took me maybe 20 minutes to drill and tap the holes. I think it took longer to assemble the tool mount to my work bench. Drilling and tapping upside down as per the instruction though, kind of sucks.

 

[guruman]

I've heard random stories of the death wobble, but not a lot.. So it's not to common?

Maybe @jeepguru can chime in on how common it is. He sees more Jeeps than most of us for sure.

It might be common... but most cases are simply a loose component, usually a trackbar. I can almost guarantee, that if you go loosen your upper trackbar bolt by a turn and a half, you'll have the wobble.

The steering stabilizer might hold it back for a while, but the constant strain will eventually overpower the stabilizer, and the resulting wobble will loosen the fillings in your teeth.

Cases like mine, where the root cause is less obvious I'd say are less common. I've literally replaced every connection to the front axle at this point, leaving only the steering box as a possible suspect. My situation is compounded by the fact that I've pushed the stock suspension as far as it can go (Clayton performance springs and a short spacer lift) without really addressing the changes in angles and geometry in my quest to run larger tires and keep the center of gravity as low as possible. to this end I'm considering a custom long(er) arm setup, hopefully with no additional suspension height, but we'll see.

 

[Ryeboy86]

Maybe @jeepguru can chime in on how common it is. He sees more Jeeps than most of us for sure.

It might be common... but most cases are simply a loose component, usually a trackbar. I can almost guarantee, that if you go loosen your upper trackbar bolt by a turn and a half, you'll have the wobble.

The steering stabilizer might hold it back for a while, but the constant strain will eventually overpower the stabilizer, and the resulting wobble will loosen the fillings in your teeth.

Cases like mine, where the root cause is less obvious I'd say are less common. I've literally replaced every connection to the front axle at this point, leaving only the steering box as a possible suspect. My situation is compounded by the fact that I've pushed the stock suspension as far as it can go (Clayton performance springs and a short spacer lift) without really addressing the changes in angles and geometry in my quest to run larger tires and keep the center of gravity as low as possible. to this end I'm considering a custom long(er) arm setup, hopefully with no additional suspension height, but we'll see.

Thanks for the input! Hopefully your situation gets better with the jeep! It's always frustrating to not be able to get things to work properly.

 

[jeepguru]

Maybe @jeepguru can chime in on how common it is. He sees more Jeeps than most of us for sure.

It might be common... but most cases are simply a loose component, usually a trackbar. I can almost guarantee, that if you go loosen your upper trackbar bolt by a turn and a half, you'll have the wobble.

The steering stabilizer might hold it back for a while, but the constant strain will eventually overpower the stabilizer, and the resulting wobble will loosen the fillings in your teeth.

Cases like mine, where the root cause is less obvious I'd say are less common. I've literally replaced every connection to the front axle at this point, leaving only the steering box as a possible suspect. My situation is compounded by the fact that I've pushed the stock suspension as far as it can go (Clayton performance springs and a short spacer lift) without really addressing the changes in angles and geometry in my quest to run larger tires and keep the center of gravity as low as possible. to this end I'm considering a custom long(er) arm setup, hopefully with no additional suspension height, but we'll see.

We of course see waaaaay more death wobble in the JKs, but now that JLs are aging on almost 7-8 years, it is becoming more common. And honestly, it's a toss up between stock or mildly altered Jeeps that were simply just not taken care of vs. highly modified Jeeps that have many new components that "flush out" the weakness in an aging piece like a tie rod end, trackbar bushing, control arm joint, etc. Unfortunately the OEM Jeep steering box has turned out to be a POS and definitely has a shelf life if you've got larger tires on the Jeep.

Dave

 

[guruman]

Thanks for the input! Hopefully your situation gets better with the jeep! It's always frustrating to not be able to get things to work properly.

Honestly, I've chased the problem down to the point where it's not bad. Most folks would just accept it as a "Jeep thing" at this point. IF you weren't trying to pay attention to it, you might not notice.

But I'm a picky jackwagon, so I'm going to beat it into submission. Plus, hydro assist!

 

[Ryeboy86]

We of course see waaaaay more death wobble in the JKs, but now that JLs are aging on almost 7-8 years, it is becoming more common. And honestly, it's a toss up between stock or mildly altered Jeeps that were simply just not taken care of vs. highly modified Jeeps that have many new components that "flush out" the weakness in an aging piece like a tie rod end, trackbar bushing, control arm joint, etc. Unfortunately the OEM Jeep steering box has turned out to be a POS and definitely has a shelf life if you've got larger tires on the Jeep.

Dave

So it's a matter of replacing the components.. I'm looking at a 2023 XR that has 9k miles. They put 37" tires on it and a lift. They're asking $74k.. I'd definitely try to talk them down

 

[guruman]

So, I bought a new steering box, and a new pitman arm, so that I didn't have to move the old one off the old box, but I cannot get the new one to fully seat on the shaft. I'm afraid I'm going to damage the box.....

Anyone done this? How?

 

[guruman]

Getting the Boost, cooler, and new ported steering box in was a huge pain. there is no room to get the steering box out the bottom (maybe at full suspension droop). So I had to remove the air box and a bunch of supporting structure underneath to get the box swapped.

Getting the cooler mounted was not easy. I had to laugh at the directions that said to just remove this bolt that holds the low pressure line bracket to the inside of the frame rail on the drivers side. Just remove it with a 10mm wrench..... it hits the bottom of the radiator/cooler. Getting it out would mean removing the grill, and radiator... so I just cut it off.

I dropped in a new passenger side inner axle seal while I had it on the lift.

 

[EBYCREEK]

Any update on the install of your Apex ram system?

 

[guruman]

Any update on the install of your Apex ram system?

Other than some challenges with the available space under the radiator for the cooling unit, the install went pretty well. I installed the Apex boost kit as well, and I believe my stock settings were very low. I have the Apex booster set at the 2000psi mark, and the steering is noticeably effortless all the time. I'm sure the ram helps.

It is a bit dumb that you need to remove the gauge block from the pump after setting the pressure. There should have been an easier way to address that. I needed to pull the pump out again and I thought that was pretty dumb.

As for the actual wobble, I still have "something" but it's not really the death wobble. My running theory is that the wobble must have warped/stretched/pulled/broken a belt in one of the tires, despite having rotated them to try and diagnose a tire issue. None of whatever it is, gets back through the steering wheel anymore.

As for the tires, I'm considering mounting some 37 Iroks onto my Hutchison two piece beadlocks for Sumer and dropping some studded snow tires onto the stock wheels for winter use. The high cost and effort, combined with a ton of projects around here that should be done before old man winter kicks us, has left me stalling a bit.

 

[EBYCREEK]

I've been running the Apex Boost Kit for about 3 years now. I will say that I'm on my 3rd pump at 12,000 miles. I've only ran my pump between 1800 - 2000 psi. I've had the problem with the power steering hot light followed by the pump leaking the fluid out. I have since mounted an electric fan in front of the pump. I ran mine with the gauge mounted to the pump for a few months but then the gauge started leaking. I have also added the RPM Extreme Fan controller which has dropped my engine temperatures by 25 degrees. I believe the fan controller has allowed everything under the hood to run cooler. Keep me updated as I'm considering the Apex Ram System.

 

[guruman]

I've been running the Apex Boost Kit for about 3 years now. I will say that I'm on my 3rd pump at 12,000 miles. I've only ran my pump between 1800 - 2000 psi. I'm pretty amazed that you can run yours in the red danger area (3000 psi) with no leaks. I've had the problem with the power steering hot light followed by the pump leaking the fluid out. I have since mounted an electric fan in front of the pump. I ran mine with the gauge mounted to the pump for a few months but then the gauge started leaking. I have also added the RPM Extreme Fan controller which has dropped my engine temperatures by 25 degrees. I believe the fan controller has allowed everything under the hood to run cooler. Keep me updated as I'm considering the Apex Ram System.

Sorry, I fat-fingered the number, I'm set at 2k, not 3k. These sausages on my hands don't always type what I want.

 

[@WhiteBronze392]

Getting the Boost, cooler, and new ported steering box in was a huge pain. there is no room to get the steering box out the bottom (maybe at full suspension droop). So I had to remove the air box and a bunch of supporting structure underneath to get the box swapped.

Getting the cooler mounted was not easy. I had to laugh at the directions that said to just remove this bolt that holds the low pressure line bracket to the inside of the frame rail on the drivers side. Just remove it with a 10mm wrench..... it hits the bottom of the radiator/cooler. Getting it out would mean removing the grill, and radiator... so I just cut it off.

I dropped in a new passenger side inner axle seal while I had it on the lift.

View attachment 50155

Ahhh brings back memories lol

Glad you are getting it sorted out

 

[guruman]

In the way of another update. After the hydro assist installation, things were much different, but I could still tell something was going on between 55-65mph.

I hate it, but I broke down and went to the tire shop to have them rebalance the wheels. I asked them to inspect them carefully for possible broken belts or some such. They indicated that both front tires (less than a years old 37 inch Milestar Patagonia Mts) had excessive runout. The wheels were fine, but the tires were no longer exactly true. They moved them to the back, but I'm not 100% sure if that was a cause of some wobble, or the result of a wobble caused by something else I had already swapped out.

Anyway, I'm calling it fixed. But I consider these new-ish tires hooped, and that sucks. I'm not sure if a different tire would have held up better, or maybe these Patagonia MTs are weak-willed. maybe it's time for a set of IROKs?

Do we have a vendor that sells Interco?

 

[Excaliburitto]

In the way of another update. After the hydro assist installation, things were much different, but I could still tell something was going on between 55-65mph.

I hate it, but I broke down and went to the tire shop to have them rebalance the wheels. I asked them to inspect them carefully for possible broken belts or some such. They indicated that both front tires (less than a years old 37 inch Milestar Patagonia Mts) had excessive runout. The wheels were fine, but the tires were no longer exactly true. They moved them to the back, but I'm not 100% sure if that was a cause of some wobble, or the result of a wobble caused by something else I had already swapped out.

Anyway, I'm calling it fixed. But I consider these new-ish tires hooped, and that sucks. I'm not sure if a different tire would have held up better, or maybe these Patagonia MTs are weak-willed. maybe it's time for a set of IROKs?

Do we have a vendor that sells Interco?

Now that you mention it, I also had a similar problem with a BMW where the rim itself got out of round and caused a similar slight vibration at a speed range. I had to replace the rim even though it had no visible damage.

So this can indeed cause your wobble. Missing balancing weights would do that too.

It is the term "wobble" vs "vibration" that made this tricky to connect for me