Alternative dealer for purchasing new 392 OTHER than Granger

[JeepJibboom]

Eric is the tool that made me gave up on my 392 order as well. My jeep came in. They said I have to pay tax on it now. I was fine with it. The problem was , Eric wanted not more nor less than 5000 for tax. My tax ( state/county/city) adds up to 7,8% which is higher than "exactly" 5k on a 85k car. I tried to explain to him the car wont get registered if the check they send to DMV is short and AZ DMV wont take partial payments. He either has to calculate the exact or correct tax , collect it from me and send it to DMV in my name, or let me pay the tax directly. He would not have it..all he wanted was 5000 on top of the negotiated price of the car. The guy is an illiterate idiot that has no common sense. I said fuck it, I forfeited my deposit, turned around and ordered a 392 from Mark Dodge.
I'm done with Granger and their inept employees..All the good ones are not doing online deals anyway ( ex Amanda)

They undercharged me as well. Luckily my DMV takes partial payments. I admit they could do a better job in the finance office. The more I think about it, it makes zero sense to me how a customer not paying sales tax on an out of state sale could come back and bite them. How are they liable? Its probably a white lie to align their policies so every sales order has tax on it. I know lenders give dealers incentives such as broker fees and discounted rates. There could be something at play where the more they finance, the better kick backs they get.

 

[guruman]

They undercharged me as well. Luckily my DMV takes partial payments. I admit they could do a better job in the finance office. The more I think about it, it makes zero sense to me how a customer not paying sales tax on an out of state sale could come back and bite them. How are they liable? Its probably a white lie to align their policies so every sales order has tax on it. I know lenders give dealers incentives such as broker fees and discounted rates. There could be something at play where the more they finance, the better kick backs they get.

As far as I know, all retail businesses in every state are required by law to collect sales tax for taxable items.

In my state, Indiana, there is an exception for out of state purchases. For years Indiana figured that it was not their business to collect sales tax for other states. The nonagon came along, and state sales taxes across the board dropped dramatically as online retailers were not collecting tax. Technically citizens were to report those sales on tier state tax return, but enough people didn't that new laws were put in place and agreements made between states to collect more sales tax.

Vehicles used to be an exception, because states figured they would just get you when you register it.... but then they found that people were buying vehicles out of state, not paying sales tax on it, then re-selling it themselves without going through a licenses retailer, causing them to miss out on that sweet, sweet tax revenue.

So dealers are scrambling to protect themselves in case the state auditors come calling wanting to know why tax was not collected for a sale. The reason they don't necessarily charge the same percentage as your home stat is that they do not have to answer for that state and its rate if you skip paying and resell it.... the dealer in on the hook for the tax for the state they are in if they get audited.

It's very messy, but I do not think it's nefarious on the part of the dealer. They are just afraid of the tax man like everyone else.

 

[Casper]

As far as I know, all retail businesses in every state are required by law to collect sales tax for taxable items.

It is a bit more complex, and I'm no tax consultant. A business must have a certain volume of business to be required to collect taxes. That's why you might find smaller online shops that don't collect any state taxes outside their own - they don't pass the volume threshold.

In my state, Indiana, there is an exception for out of state purchases. For years Indiana figured that it was not their business to collect sales tax for other states. The nonagon came along, and state sales taxes across the board dropped dramatically as online retailers were not collecting tax. Technically citizens were to report those sales on tier state tax return, but enough people didn't that new laws were put in place and agreements made between states to collect more sales tax.

Lots of states require self reporting.

Vehicles used to be an exception, because states figured they would just get you when you register it.... but then they found that people were buying vehicles out of state, not paying sales tax on it, then re-selling it themselves without going through a licenses retailer, causing them to miss out on that sweet, sweet tax revenue.

In AZ you must pay taxes when you register the vehicle.

So dealers are scrambling to protect themselves in case the state auditors come calling wanting to know why tax was not collected for a sale. The reason they don't necessarily charge the same percentage as your home stat is that they do not have to answer for that state and its rate if you skip paying and resell it.... the dealer in on the hook for the tax for the state they are in if they get audited.

In this case Granger doesn't really care about state taxes. They just want you to pay a premium if you intend to resell the vehicle. Pure and simple, from their own folks. That's all they want - make it hard to resell.

When one buys something from Amazon, amazon automatically calculates and HOLDS your state tax. Amazon afterwards remits that to you state. That is what paying sales tax means. Imagine if amazon will issue you a check for you to pay to your state treasury.

It's very messy, but I do not think it's nefarious on the part of the dealer. They are just afraid of the tax man like everyone else.

Their own folks told me this upfront: they don't want you to flip your Jeep. They claimed that Stelantis notices that and it affects their allocation. So this "tax" they are forcing you to pay is the penalty that you'd pay to THEM (by not cashing the check) if you don't register and flip the Jeep.

The bad part is that they have a very rude finance person that doesn't seem to care and does harm to their brand. They also seem to be impervious to how this "requirement" complicates the transaction for some folks.

In the end they just care about their sales. If it's difficult for the customer, they don't care - they just got a brand spanking new 392 on the lot that THEY can flip.

 

[Casper]

PS: Even on the purchasing invoice it NOT shown as "Tax" but rather as "Registration Fee", which is false, since the car was never registred in IA (Granger's home state):

 

[JeepJibboom]

As far as I know, all retail businesses in every state are required by law to collect sales tax for taxable items.

In my state, Indiana, there is an exception for out of state purchases. For years Indiana figured that it was not their business to collect sales tax for other states. The nonagon came along, and state sales taxes across the board dropped dramatically as online retailers were not collecting tax. Technically citizens were to report those sales on tier state tax return, but enough people didn't that new laws were put in place and agreements made between states to collect more sales tax.

Vehicles used to be an exception, because states figured they would just get you when you register it.... but then they found that people were buying vehicles out of state, not paying sales tax on it, then re-selling it themselves without going through a licenses retailer, causing them to miss out on that sweet, sweet tax revenue.

So dealers are scrambling to protect themselves in case the state auditors come calling wanting to know why tax was not collected for a sale. The reason they don't necessarily charge the same percentage as your home stat is that they do not have to answer for that state and its rate if you skip paying and resell it.... the dealer in on the hook for the tax for the state they are in if they get audited.

It's very messy, but I do not think it's nefarious on the part of the dealer. They are just afraid of the tax man like everyone else.

But they aren’t collecting sales tax for their state. They are charging you sales tax, making you finance it in the loan and then immediately remits the payment mailed to you and made out to whomever you say to make it out to.

Their state can’t get the tax because you pay taxes on vehicles in the state and county of which you reside. And, I’m pretty sure every state is like that.

My state doesn’t even allow dealers to charge sales tax unless they are pre authorized to due to my states process of registering vehicles.

Something else has to be at play. Like Stellantis tracking resale or flipping. If they force you to roll in the tax, you are then forced to register it.

The only exception would be somehow Iowa is able to track the origin sale and if the person that purchased it was from out of state and if they do not register it out of state, then state of Iowa goes after the dealer for the taxes.

 

[guruman]

You see... it's different for each state...

Here's one I found for Michigan, and it's stupid complicated, and completely unfair (if you take delivery in Michigan they will charge you Michigan sales tax no matter where you are from, but if you live in one of the non-reciprocal states, that tax payment does not count, and you would be required to pay your own state's sales/use tax at registration). But a dealer in that state does not have a choice.

http://msdra.com/out_of_state_buyersales_tax.htm

Here's the one for Iowa: Note "Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/iowa/sales-tax-vehicles

How your state handles the Iowa collection of the tax or "one time registration fee" is up to your state. As far as I can see they are REQUIRED to collect the 5% tax (and Iowa calls it a registration fee, so it's not the dealer being nefarious).

 

[OffRoadPatriot]

You see... it's different for each state...

Here's one I found for Michigan, and it's stupid complicated, and completely unfair (if you take delivery in Michigan they will charge you Michigan sales tax no matter where you are from, but if you live in one of the non-reciprocal states, that tax payment does not count, and you would be required to pay your own state's sales/use tax at registration). But a dealer in that state does not have a choice.

http://msdra.com/out_of_state_buyersales_tax.htm

Here's the one for Iowa: Note "Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/iowa/sales-tax-vehicles

How your state handles the Iowa collection of the tax or "one time registration fee" is up to your state. As far as I can see they are REQUIRED to collect the 5% tax (and Iowa calls it a registration fee, so it's not the dealer being nefarious).

PS: Even on the purchasing invoice it NOT shown as "Tax" but rather as "Registration Fee", which is false, since the car was never registred in IA (Granger's home state):

View attachment 30005

Be careful with this. In Colorado, they add all of the fees to the purchase price and you pay taxes on those fees. The DMV almost charged me tax on the tax money Granger collected because they list it as a "fee" until she realized that amount was the exact amount of the tax check.

 

[OffRoadPatriot]

You see... it's different for each state...

Here's one I found for Michigan, and it's stupid complicated, and completely unfair (if you take delivery in Michigan they will charge you Michigan sales tax no matter where you are from, but if you live in one of the non-reciprocal states, that tax payment does not count, and you would be required to pay your own state's sales/use tax at registration). But a dealer in that state does not have a choice.

http://msdra.com/out_of_state_buyersales_tax.htm

Here's the one for Iowa: Note "Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/iowa/sales-tax-vehicles

How your state handles the Iowa collection of the tax or "one time registration fee" is up to your state. As far as I can see they are REQUIRED to collect the 5% tax (and Iowa calls it a registration fee, so it's not the dealer being nefarious).

I'm not sure that applies to out of state purchases since you aren't registering the vehicle in the state of Iowa. Granger doesn't even give you a normal temp tag and title, it's a transit tag and transit title. The tax is not being collected by the state of Iowa, it's being collected by Granger and they just turn around and write you a check for the same amount to whomever you tell them to (but I'm sure they would question you if it didn't sound like a county DMV). This is a new policy and they just started doing it a few months ago. The reason they provided did not say they were required to do so. It said Jeep was charging them, so they were just protecting themselves. I can understand that, but it was something Granger decided to do, not something they were forced to do. They also could have decided to make this new policy only apply to new orders, if they wanted to.
I suspect Granger has to legally list it as a fee because they can't say they are charging you a tax if they don't remit that money to the government. Charging a government tax that they don't send to the government would have to be illegal. I'm not a CPA or lawyer, this is just me trying to make sense of what they are doing.

 

[guruman]

I believe I'd go with what the actual tax handbook says over an individual interpretation of "he/she/they said"...

"Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

In most states, this means the dealer is required to collect the tax at the time of purchase. If there is some exception/refund for vehicles sold out of state, it was not listed in the linked tax info. It just seems like folks are wanting to demonize the dealer over this, but it does not seem to be optional for them based on what I've linked.

As always though, believe and do what you want. I'm just some jackwagon on the internet who was trying to help by adding some context of my understanding of it.

 

[JeepJibboom]

I believe I'd go with what the actual tax handbook says over an individual interpretation of "he/she/they said"...

"Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

In most states, this means the dealer is required to collect the tax at the time of purchase. If there is some exception/refund for vehicles sold out of state, it was not listed in the linked tax info. It just seems like folks are wanting to demonize the dealer over this, but it does not seem to be optional for them based on what I've linked.

As always though, believe and do what you want. I'm just some jackwagon on the internet who was trying to help by adding some context of my understanding of it.

But granger isn’t charging 5%. They charged me exactly 7.5%. That’s neither their state requirement nor what my county charges (which I provided).

 

[Casper]

But granger isn’t charging 5%. They charged me exactly 7.5%. That’s neither their state requirement nor what my county charges (which I provided).

Same here. They calculated AZ not IA fee. It's pure BS on their behalf:

Their own folks told me this upfront: they don't want you to flip your Jeep. They claimed that Stelantis notices that and it affects their allocation. So with this "tax" they are forcing you to pay a penalty THEM (by not cashing the check) if you don't register and flip the Jeep.

One can flip the Jeep afterwards, of-course, but for a higher price: "Grainger Price" + "the fake tax" + "whatever profit".

All this could've been forgotten, since in my particular cost there was no impact on the total cost. However Eric's attitude and "we'll put your Jeep on the lot and sell it" comment is not.

 

[Casper]

I’m selling my 392….i had it for about 2 months….its PunkN orange…has Off-road Camera and tail gate reinforcement…and trailer package

Wrong thread.

 

[@JC]

I believe I'd go with what the actual tax handbook says over an individual interpretation of "he/she/they said"...

"Iowa collects a 5% state sales tax rate as a ""One-Time Registration Fee"" on the purchase of all vehicles."

In most states, this means the dealer is required to collect the tax at the time of purchase. If there is some exception/refund for vehicles sold out of state, it was not listed in the linked tax info. It just seems like folks are wanting to demonize the dealer over this, but it does not seem to be optional for them based on what I've linked.

As always though, believe and do what you want. I'm just some jackwagon on the internet who was trying to help by adding some context of my understanding of it.

Not sure why you keep arguing about something you know nothing about and about which you are completely wrong. Granger is NOT doing this because of Iowa tax law, they are ONLY doing this because they got a couple of charge-backs from Stellantis when the person they sold the vehicle to didn't register the vehicle before they sold it to someone else.

 

[guruman]

Not sure why you keep arguing about something you know nothing about and about which you are completely wrong. Granger is NOT doing this because of Iowa tax law, they are ONLY doing this because they got a couple of charge-backs from Stellantis when the person they sold the vehicle to didn't register the vehicle before they sold it to someone else.

Yet, somehow, Iowa tax law clearly states the details of the 5% sales tax as a registration fee. In writing, for everyone to see or go lookup themselves.

The question is, why do you keep arguing, based on absolutely nothing but hearsay, despite the actual, presented, and provable facts?

 

[guruman]

Even if it's true that they are only doing it to avoid chargebacks... so what?

That seems like a legit reason to me as well. Why should they be penalized for someone else cheating a state out of tax?

Most, if not all of us, would do exactly the same kind of thing to avoid taking a loss for someone else's actions.

 

[@JC]

Yet, somehow, Iowa tax law clearly states the details of the 5% sales tax as a registration fee. In writing, for everyone to see or go lookup themselves.

Again, your point is moot as it applies only to vehicles registered in Iowa.

 

[JeepJibboom]

Even if it's true that they are only doing it to avoid chargebacks... so what?

That seems like a legit reason to me as well. Why should they be penalized for someone else cheating a state out of tax?

Most, if not all of us, would do exactly the same kind of thing to avoid taking a loss for someone else's actions.

I agree. But, I think there’s better ways of handling it. OP was upset that the change in policy was retroactive.

 

[OffRoadPatriot]

I spoke with someone at Granger today, and they are aware of the problems with the "finance department". I think if they made some changes there, everyone's experience would be much different. I know for me, it wasn't so much the policy change that bothered me as much as how Eric handled it. It's really too bad because everyone else I worked with at Granger was great, but he has the power to make the purchase experience miserable.

They have also changed a few things based on feedback they have received from customers. One of them is sending customers photographs of their Jeep when it arrives and correctly documenting the mileage on the odometer disclosure statement. Previously, they just put a number on the form and never actually looked at the odometer. When I picked up my new Jeep from Granger, it had 57 miles on the odometer (not the 12 the odometer disclosure statement stated) and scratches and dents on the skids, so someone had some fun. I don't know if it was at the factory or at Granger, but this change should make that clearer for future customers and hopefully deter any abuse. I like that they are listening to their customers and improving their processes to create a better experience. That's not enough to fix everything and make everyone happy, but they have changed my mind and I would consider purchasing another vehicle from Granger as long as I didn't have to deal with Eric and they promised to lock up my keys as soon as the Jeep got off of the truck.

 

[DeadStang]

I spent some time with Eric on the phone Tuesday and he was great -- nice and cheerful. No issue(s) what-so-ever.

 

[zach@granger]

Eric’s name was mentioned in the forums before as being rude and unprofessional.

To add to it, when I asked him to transfer me to @zach@granger, he refused to do so stating that Zach doesn’t accept calls from customers.

Is this correct @zach@granger ?

My apologies for the experience. We've addressed that with our staff members involved.

In regards to the policy changes, we were audited by Chrysler and received a large incentive chargeback because of customers who did not register their vehicles in the state that they placed the order. We are obligated to make sure that happens and many customers didn't (i'd assume they flipped the vehicle). So we had to make this policy change to help prevent that issue.

I can certainly understand where customers are coming from as policies change, but we couldn't afford to do things the same way.

In regards to phone calls, I am often pulled multiple directions and email a lot of times is the best way to get ahold of me because of all the irons I have in the fire, so its hard for me to address the issues in a timely manner and insure a good customer experience.