Trail Recon T-Case Failure

In every other Jeep transfer case, going back 30 years, with "full-time" the 4h "part-time" setting is locked 50/50, I do not believe that our 4h "part-time" is any different, otherwise how is it different from 4h "auto"?

Not all off-road driving is suitable for using 4L... This is why we have a 4H settings. I agree that driving around in loose/slippery conditions in "auto" would cause wear on the front output clutches.
I've used 4H PT during the Bantam Jeep Festival in PA back in June, for their blue trail. Lots of ups and downs but mainly dirt road. It handled extremely well, and I think the 4H PT should be used for trails like this, with front sway bar disconnected as well. I also used 4H PT in rainy conditions on the highway for extra traction.
 
4H part time is not locked 50/50. It will slip the front based on throttle. It is a bad choice by the programmers. But it is a fact…

The simple difference between auto and part time is part time starts 50/50 and slips back to 20/80. Auto is the other way. With most rear to start and adds to the front. 4L is the only locked mode.

I don’t know if you meant all Jeeps. But the full time 4WD jeeps haven’t been been locked 50/50 for a while. My JGC has the same t-case as a 392. It is quadra-trac 2. Not locked, there is no full time or part time setting….
From my 2021 owner's manual:

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From my 2023 Owner's manual:

1689787027391.webp
 

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4H part time is not locked 50/50. It will slip the front based on throttle. It is a bad choice by the programmers. But it is a fact…

The simple difference between auto and part time is part time starts 50/50 and slips back to 20/80. Auto is the other way. With most rear to start and adds to the front. 4L is the only locked mode.

I don’t know if you meant all Jeeps. But the full time 4WD jeeps haven’t been been locked 50/50 for a while. My JGC has the same t-case as a 392. It is quadra-trac 2. Not locked, there is no full time or part time setting….
I had asked earlier since I was a bit confused too, and below is what you replied. I don't think 4H PT will slip back to 20/80... Where did you read this or any official information to confirm?

1689787287267.webp
 
4H part time is not locked 50/50. It will slip the front based on throttle. It is a bad choice by the programmers. But it is a fact…

The simple difference between auto and part time is part time starts 50/50 and slips back to 20/80. Auto is the other way. With most rear to start and adds to the front. 4L is the only locked mode.

I don’t know if you meant all Jeeps. But the full time 4WD jeeps haven’t been been locked 50/50 for a while. My JGC has the same t-case as a 392. It is quadra-trac 2. Not locked, there is no full time or part time setting….
Also, the 392 has a Select-Trac transfer case, not a Quadra-trac II. The select trac HAS part time (since 1983, as I eluded to), the Quadra-trac II does not.

1689787458998.webp
 
I had asked earlier since I was a bit confused too, and below is what you replied. I don't think 4H PT will slip back to 20/80... Where did you read this or any official information to confirm?

View attachment 24004
A tech on the JL Wrangler site hooked up a recorder to the obd2 and logged the signals to the transfer case. 4H was much closer to 50/50 most of the time vs 4P, but it was not Locked at 50/50 . Throttle Position had more influence on the Locked percentage than actual wheel slippage....slippage did contribute and was an adder. 4L was 100% 50/50 Locked at all throttle positions. You can do a search over there and read the article. Very technical and helpful. I did not save it.
 
I had asked earlier since I was a bit confused too, and below is what you replied. I don't think 4H PT will slip back to 20/80... Where did you read this or any official information to confirm?

View attachment 24004
My comment is based on 4H part time‘s “intent” to be 50/50. It is not trying to slip. Programming will slip 4H PT away from the front based on throttle, as @onfire392 indicates. @onfire392 is a little backwards. 4H auto wants to be RWD and 4H PT wants to be 50/50. Programming slips it from those. 4H PT will stay 50/50 unless you push it harder then it will slip away from the front.
 
Also, the 392 has a Select-Trac transfer case, not a Quadra-trac II. The select trac HAS part time (since 1983, as I eluded to), the Quadra-trac II does not.

View attachment 24006
That is marketing. The 392 has a MP3022 and the WK2 has a MP3023. Marketing and programming is the only difference between the 2. Physically they are identical. I should know, I have one of each in my garage.
 
From my 2021 owner's manual:

View attachment 23999


From my 2023 Owner's manual:

View attachment 24000
Definitely that is what 4H PT “should” do. But believe me or not, doesn’t matter to me, it is not 50/50 all the time. I have seen the sensor readings on my 392 on JScan myself. In 4H PT the torque numbers are not 50/50 all the time, after 30% throttle they diverge . In 4L they definitely are the same all the time.
 
Found the thread with the clutch locking / unlocking in 4p


 
What is the point of 4HPT then? I've had 3 modern (2020+) GM 4x4's with 4H/4HA/4LO. In all of them, 4H is for general off-road use, 4LO only for aggressive rock climb. In my 2022 TRX, when off-road we used 4H and never encountered a scenario where 4LO felt needed.

When we take our 22 JLUR4XE off-road, we've been using 4HPT for everything but the aggressive crawls and climbs, for those 4LO.

Are we destroying clutches?
 
What is the point of 4HPT then? I've had 3 modern (2020+) GM 4x4's with 4H/4HA/4LO. In all of them, 4H is for general off-road use, 4LO only for aggressive rock climb. In my 2022 TRX, when off-road we used 4H and never encountered a scenario where 4LO felt needed.

When we take our 22 JLUR4XE off-road, we've been using 4HPT for everything but the aggressive crawls and climbs, for those 4LO.

Are we destroying clutches?
Definitely wearing the clutches in 4P Offroad. Jeep could fix it with a simple programming change to lock 4P like 4L. Crazy that 4P does not lock. It’s much better than 4A , but not locked.
 
What is the point of 4HPT then? I've had 3 modern (2020+) GM 4x4's with 4H/4HA/4LO. In all of them, 4H is for general off-road use, 4LO only for aggressive rock climb. In my 2022 TRX, when off-road we used 4H and never encountered a scenario where 4LO felt needed.

When we take our 22 JLUR4XE off-road, we've been using 4HPT for everything but the aggressive crawls and climbs, for those 4LO.

Are we destroying clutches?
4H PT is the correct setting. But it will be more wear on the clutches than 4L. But a lot less than 4H auto. And if you are not “hot rodding” in 4H pt you will stay 50/50. But heavy use of the skinny pedal will slip the front.
 
Definitely wearing the clutches in 4P Offroad. Jeep could fix it with a simple programming change to lock 4P like 4L. Crazy that 4P does not lock. It’s much better than 4A , but not locked.
I would buy a tazer if they could do the 4H pt 50/50 lock…. Don’t know if Joe is listening, but Z auto could sell a bunch of tazers if you added a 50/50 lock mode.
 
I would guess they slip the front in 4H pt because the 392 would damage a d44 axle shaft if you got too frisky with the the front locked 50/50. And people have historically turned on 4H pt in Jeeps on pavement for rain etc. So I can assume that is why it is programmed that way.
 
I would buy a tazer if they could do the 4H pt 50/50 lock…. Don’t know if Joe is listening, but Z auto could sell a bunch of tazers if you added a 50/50 lock mode.
That's a Big 10-4
 
I keep rolling this "part time not locked" deal around in my head, and the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Here's why:

We assume the reason part time is not locked is to save the axles from all that V8 power.... But, exactly all of that V8 power passes through exactly the same driveline components in 4low, only with the torque multiplied by the low gears.

If it can handle it in low, it can handle it in high. there is no reason to not lock part time high.

"That bucket don't hold water" as my grandfather used to say.
 
I keep rolling this "part time not locked" deal around in my head, and the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Here's why:

We assume the reason part time is not locked is to save the axles from all that V8 power.... But, exactly all of that V8 power passes through exactly the same driveline components in 4low, only with the torque multiplied by the low gears.

If it can handle it in low, it can handle it in high. there is no reason to not lock part time high.

"That bucket don't hold water" as my grandfather used to say.
If you are saying it doesn’t makes sense that it doesn’t lock 50/50 in 4H PT, I think that everyone agrees with you. If you are saying that it doesn’t lock 50/50 in 4H PT, sorry that is wrong. It definitely doesn’t lock. Well I will say that my 2 mp3022/3 don’t and the person with the 4xe that posted pics of it not locking from the link thread from @onfire392 . So maybe those are exceptions…. But 100% my 392 and JGC with the same t-case both do not lock 50/50 in anything other than 4L. I have seen the numbers on my JScan for both. And they don’t lock 50/50…. But those are the only Jeeps I have personally witnessed the slipping of clutches…. So maybe there are only 3 and all the others lock…
 
Is the mp3022 used in any full size trucks ?
 

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