Wrangler 392 Blown Head Gasket

[Donkey's Dad]

The base fuel is basically the same, it’s the detergents / additive pack that the “Top Tier” suppliers add to their fuel. The same argument could be made for why not use Walmart branded 0W40 motor oil as opposed to Penzoil or another name brand oil. It’s not only the base oil but the additive and detergent pack that you’re paying for… well that and a whole lot of marketing. To each their own on what they want to run in their Jeep.

I'd really have to see when/how the additive pack gets mixed in with the fuel that goes to one station vs. another. If the 91 Octane Ethanol Free fuel is all coming out of one main tank at the depo, when is the additive mixed in? As it goes into the truck? I'm just skeptical that it could be much different and if the majority of Top Tier fuel contains Ethanol, I'll pass.

 

[Quadjeeper]

Top Tier site may not be up to date. Just checked a listed station this am near me, no labeling indicating top tier and attendant had no clue.

 

[Casper]

I'd really have to see when/how the additive pack gets mixed in with the fuel that goes to one station vs. another. If the 91 Octane Ethanol Free fuel is all coming out of one main tank at the depo, when is the additive mixed in? As it goes into the truck? I'm just skeptical that it could be much different and if the majority of Top Tier fuel contains Ethanol, I'll pass.

From the Toptier site:

 

[CAMEL2R]

I visited the local Valero today and they have the sticker. 91 is the highest grade they have.

From the Toptier site:
View attachment 26232

 

[Donkey's Dad]

From the Toptier site:
View attachment 26232

Sure, they have a number of compartments, but there are also lots of fuels, 87 Octane, 89, Ethanol Blend, E85, Premium, etc. What are the odds that a truck carrying Premium has one tank for a Top Tier Blend 91, and another tank for a Non-Top Tier 91? I think it's more marketing than anything else, and I'm far more worried about the Ethanol than anything else.

 

[Robr651]

Sure, they have a number of compartments, but there are also lots of fuels, 87 Octane, 89, Ethanol Blend, E85, Premium, etc. What are the odds that a truck carrying Premium has one tank for a Top Tier Blend 91, and another tank for a Non-Top Tier 91? I think it's more marketing than anything else, and I'm far more worried about the Ethanol than anything else.

Why? you’re not driving a classic car you’re driving a modern vehicle built to run on modern E10 fuel. There’s plenty of proof that E85 tuned cars make far more power than non ethanol powered ones. I get avoiding ethanol blended fuel for classics and lawn equipment because it’s not tuned for it, but why are you avoiding it for a vehicle designed to run on it?

 

[Donkey's Dad]

Why? you’re not driving a classic car you’re driving a modern vehicle built to run on modern E10 fuel. There’s plenty of proof that E85 tuned cars make far more power than non ethanol powered ones. I get avoiding ethanol blended fuel for classics and lawn equipment because it’s not tuned for it, but why are you avoiding it for a vehicle designed to run on it?

It's corrosive to the fuel lines as far as I know and creates more carbon build up on valves, etc.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Sure, they have a number of compartments, but there are also lots of fuels, 87 Octane, 89, Ethanol Blend, E85, Premium, etc. What are the odds that a truck carrying Premium has one tank for a Top Tier Blend 91, and another tank for a Non-Top Tier 91? I think it's more marketing than anything else, and I'm far more worried about the Ethanol than anything else.

Since this thread has become more about fuel, I‘ll derail it more.

Besides the high cost of production of ethanol and being politicized, what worries you about 10% or so of ethanol in your fuel?

Ethanol as an additive to fuel is stupid, don’t get me wrong. It is like saying I am gonna water down my “house” Gin with Tanqueray. But as far as harmful to an engine, it is not. It raises the octane rating combats knocking etc. E85 is often used in dedicated street racers and drag cars for more horse power. it might do something to your lawn mower. But not your 392.

 

[stumblinhorse]

It's corrosive to the fuel lines as far as I know and creates more carbon build up on valves, etc.

That is true in my 1969 d100 v8. Not my 392.

 

[Bobo57]

Methanol absorbs water, so if the gas sits for a while, corrosion may come into play.

 

[stumblinhorse]

That is true in my 1969 d100 v8. Not my 392

Methanol absorbs water, so if the gas sits for a while, corrosion may come into play.

yes, in a vehicle not made in the last 15-20 years. Diesel absorbs more water than ethanol and we seem to do ok with that.

Corrosion happens in my 69 v8 because the fuel system is 69 metal. Most things are plastic or aluminum or some alloy today.

Only issue with ethanol in modern vehicles will happen if it sets long enough to collect enough water to freeze.

 

[guruman]

Over time ethanol fuel turns to garbage and kills just about everything. Mowers, chainsaws, blowers, ATVs, motorbikes.... everything. None of this stuff pre-dates ethanol fuels. I've had this happen in as little as 3 months.

Non-ethanol fuel (gasoline and diesel) lasts much longer, and I've never had something sit so long as to make non-ethanal fuel become a problem. Sure... if I'm burning through the ethanol stuff fast enough, it's not a problem.... but if I can, I'll not risk it. An unexpected injury or illness might sideline me long enough for it to be an issue.

I keep a couple hundred gallons of what they call "recreation gas" around for all of my motorized stuff, and I'll never run a drop of corn squeezing through any of it if I can help it. It's 91 octane, and I had to pay the road tax on it anyway, so I can burn it in the 392 if I want.

On my recent trip to Wyoming, I found non-ethanol 92 octane, and that tank did about 2mpg better than all of the ethanol blends under very similar conditions. I averaged over 17mpg. I wanted to try another tank or two, but I forgot exactly where I bought it. (Lovell maybe?)

I plan of testing the rec gas I have to see how it goes... If it works well, I may just stop guying gas at the station, and have it all delivered. Burning it in the 392 means my stockpile gets rotated more, and that's better for everything.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Over time ethanol fuel turns to garbage and kills just about everything. Mowers, chainsaws, blowers, ATVs, motorbikes.... everything. None of this stuff pre-dates ethanol fuels. I've had this happen in as little as 3 months.

Non-ethanol fuel (gasoline and diesel) lasts much longer, and I've never had something sit so long as to make non-ethanal fuel become a problem. Sure... if I'm burning through the ethanol stuff fast enough, it's not a problem.... but if I can, I'll not risk it. An unexpected injury or illness might sideline me long enough for it to be an issue.

I keep a couple hundred gallons of what they call "recreation gas" around for all of my motorized stuff, and I'll never run a drop of corn squeezing through any of it if I can help it. It's 91 octane, and I had to pay the road tax on it anyway, so I can burn it in the 392 if I want.

On my recent trip to Wyoming, I found non-ethanol 92 octane, and that tank did about 2mpg better than all of the ethanol blends under very similar conditions. I averaged over 17mpg. I wanted to try another tank or two, but I forgot exactly where I bought it. (Lovell maybe?)

I plan of testing the rec gas I have to see how it goes... If it works well, I may just stop guying gas at the station, and have it all delivered. Burning it in the 392 means my stockpile gets rotated more, and that's better for everything.

I won’t tell you what I use for fuel but suffice it to say there isn’t a tier 1 fuel station anywhere near me, 40 miles.

 

[Rscx4]

Pure gasoline has about a 45% greater energy density than ethanol, adding any ethanol (or detergents) to gasoline absolutely dilutes the amount of energy available per the exact same volume of fuel. Pure gas is always the best option but generally not readily available. I think most of us drive our 392s enough not to have to worry about ethanol damage but don’t put any diluted gasoline in your boat or power tools, it will gunk up and create issues down the road.

 

[Guest2157]

I am not the 392 expert but in every engine I have worked on more fuel makes it run cooler not hotter. The fuel is a lubricant and if too much fuel it burns poorly with lower exhaust gas temp. It’s always a balance between lean/extra wear/hot/good fuel economy and rich/longevity/cooler/gas guzzler. I just don't trust dealer mechanics anymore. If the computer doesn't provide a code with step by step instructions they cant fix it.

So I got my truck back, running as good as new. For now, hopefully for good Can you believe that even after my vehicle overheated blowing a head gasket, Replacing 2 warped headers & replacing all 8 injectors the dealer would not warranty my thermostat since they didn’t get an error code. I stressed to them that at no point did my vehicle alarm me of it overheating. If I wanted to replace it would cost me almost 600 bucks. I ordered the part for $60 online. It’ll take me 15 min to swap it, if that. Dealers should have a little more discretion, because they didn’t have an error code what a joke!

 

[Rscx4]

Great to hear you’ve got her back. Crazy how the dealership service model is so ridiculous about simple repairs. Having your motor halfway apart would have been a simple part and no extra time.

 

[Donkey's Dad]

So I got my truck back, running as good as new. For now, hopefully for good Can you believe that even after my vehicle overheated blowing a head gasket, Replacing 2 warped headers & replacing all 8 injectors the dealer would not warranty my thermostat since they didn’t get an error code. I stressed to them that at no point did my vehicle alarm me of it overheating. If I wanted to replace it would cost me almost 600 bucks. I ordered the part for $60 online. It’ll take me 15 min to swap it, if that. Dealers should have a little more discretion, because they didn’t have an error code what a joke!

Thank goodness you got it back safe and sound. I sincerely hope it was done right and doesn't give you any trouble. I'm so sorry we highjacked your thread with all of the back and forth on Fuels!

All the best!

 

[stumblinhorse]

So I got my truck back, running as good as new. For now, hopefully for good Can you believe that even after my vehicle overheated blowing a head gasket, Replacing 2 warped headers & replacing all 8 injectors the dealer would not warranty my thermostat since they didn’t get an error code. I stressed to them that at no point did my vehicle alarm me of it overheating. If I wanted to replace it would cost me almost 600 bucks. I ordered the part for $60 online. It’ll take me 15 min to swap it, if that. Dealers should have a little more discretion, because they didn’t have an error code what a joke!

If it was me, and I do it with all my vehicles, I run the coolant and oil temp display at all times. In my jeeps I bring up the off road pages as soon as they are available. What caused your issue was temperature. You will see a problem quickly on off road pages. Shut off the vehicle if coolant hits 250° or oil hits 300°. My 3.6 would hit those numbers and I would shut it off for a bit. My hemi Jeeps, I have never seen over 245° coolant or about 275° oil.

 

[TheBeast23]

If it was me, and I do it with all my vehicles, I run the coolant and oil temp display at all times. In my jeeps I bring up the off road pages as soon as they are available. What caused your issue was temperature. You will see a problem quickly on off road pages. Shut it off if coolant hits 250° or oil hits 300°. My 3.6 would hit those numbers and I would shut it off for a bit. My hemi Jeeps, I have never seen over 245° coolant or about 275° oil.

I do the same thing with my Hemi Jeeps

 

[Ted392]

Great hear the 392 is back on the road. Offroad Guage display is a great tool.

Make sure your thermostat is rated for glycol,,,lol