If possible I could use some input please. Having a steering problem.

[Bobo57]

The caster adjusters work very simply. They used to be on all straight axle 4x4s due to tolerances at factory. The idea is simple. To increase or decrease caster all that needs to happen is lengthen or shorten the control arms. So a cam adjuster bolt is doing that at the lca connection to the axle. They are often called eccentrics. Because as you can see in your picture they are not round. So the act of turning the bolt moves the connection between the axle and the LCA forward or backward. Thus increasing or decreasing caster. So to make room for that movement on a JL/jk the hole must be elongated. It needs to be elongated enough to actually have an impact on caster. So .25-.35 inches. As you can imagine that sounds sketchy, If that gets loose or is jarred off road it slides even at 120 ft/lbs of torque that is applied. The cam adjuster is designed to try to stop it but once it slides, it always slides. And the connection of the LCA to the axle right there is critical for proper handling and steering, as you found out, hence your report of steering problems.

With so many aftermarket options for adjustable LCAs or geo brackets the practice of adding an eccentric has long been gone. And it is typically reserved for the good ole shops or dealerships, since mopar makes no LCA that is adjustable…. There is not anything that can be done now. if you look at that cam kit it is not compatible with your 392. So If you run into trouble there are a couple cam elimination kits out there for dodge trucks from synergy that you can try. But trade it in at the first hint of death wobble.

I’m sure that’s distressing for the OP, was there a way to fix his issue without this? Maybe this can be corrected by welding up a patch?

 

[Ted392]

On the eccentric bolt/nut, mark them with a grease pen, so you know if they rotate.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I’m sure that’s distressing for the OP, was there a way to fix his issue without this? Maybe this can be corrected by welding up a patch?

Absolutely. Geo brackets would have cost just a few dollars more than the cam kit. But if something truly needed to be exactly dialed in, a set of adjustable LCAs would been a 10 minute install and then a perfect alignment number could have been done in seconds. Welding as a fix is usually temporary

Synergy Jeep JK Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit

Synergy Jeep JK Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit

www.synergymfg.com

 

[DGD]

Thank you guys very much for your responses. Thank you stumblinhorse for the detailed explanation and link included. It is a bit distressing as mentioned above however at this point I can only wait until Monday to discuss with Mike.

Don

 

[stumblinhorse]

Thank you guys very much for your responses. Thank you stumblinhorse for the detailed explanation and link included. It is a bit distressing as mentioned above however at this point I can only wait until Monday to discuss with Mike.

Don

Honestly I wouldn’t stress about it. Not much can be done at this point. I know that isn’t much help. But it is just 1 thing of dozens of things that might happen aver time with your 392. If you start to have death wobble later down the road, that is where I would start. Just understand that that shop is not what I would consider reputable. Ask them to see the last receipt or work order where they installed that “kit” on an another 2021 JL. Ask them to pull the LCAs out and show you what had to be done to the original bolt hole. Understand that if that is done it will need another alignment. Since Anytime that eccentric is moved it will change your caster.

 

[Fast-n-Furious]

Great to know the left pull issue was solved. I’m still trying to understand what is the key fix. Is the increased caster angle from installing the longer LCAs really needed for this left-pulling issue? I know lots of folks swapped the LCAs because the factory ones are a bit short.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Great to know the left pull issue was solved. I’m still trying to understand what is the key fix. Is the increased caster angle from installing the longer LCAs really needed for this left-pulling issue? I know lots of folks swapped the LCAs because the factory ones are a bit short.

I think I mentioned it in my post about must do upgrades, the mopar 2” lift front LCAs are a must do. Especially if you are not lifting any additional. The longer LCAs will make the Jeep handle better. The second upgrade needed is a steering stabilizer. Both the LCAs and stabilizer are the same ones that come on the lowest model of JL Sport. If you plan on staying stock, these upgrades in my mind are required to truly enjoy a 392.

 

[Fast-n-Furious]

I think I mentioned it in my post about must do upgrades, the mopar 2” lift front LCAs are a must do. Especially if you are not lifting any additional. The longer LCAs will make the Jeep handle better. The second upgrade needed is a steering stabilizer. Both the LCAs and stabilizer are the same ones that come on the lowest model of JL Sport. If you plan on staying stock, these upgrades in my mind are required to truly enjoy a 392.

Thanks I do remember seeing your recommendations and I’m finalizing my plan recently.

But just swapping the LCAs to the 1/4” longer version from Mopar 2” lift kit is not the key fix to the left-pulling issue, is it?

 

[stumblinhorse]

Thanks I do remember seeing your recommendations and I’m finalizing my plan recently.

But just swapping the LCAs to the 1/4” longer version from Mopar 2” lift kit is not the key fix to the left-pulling issue, is it?

It will aid in correcting it. The increase in caster will make your 392 track straighter or truly force the wheels to stay straight Fighting any pull.

The fox TS or thru shaft stabilizers will also aid in the fix. It will not push as a gas charged low end stabilizer, like the stock one will do.

 

[DGD]

Man just when I thought I was headed in the right direction. Thank you again stumblinhorse. I will hope to get some resolve on Monday. I can only hope for the best. I will ask to see the repair work to confirm one way or another even if it is at the cost of another alignment. If by some crazy chance they did not have to drill / expand the hole - I will more than likely change to adjustable control arms. If not I suppose I will live
with it. I am not an off roader so guess in this instance may be a plus. This will be I think my 6th or 7th (TJs and JKs) Wrangler and sounds like it now may be the one that will be with me from here on out. I started with half door with zip windows to roll up windows and so on finally getting to something really enjoyable. Im 57 so won't have to worry about it a lengthy amount of time . Will give a final report on Monday.

Have a good rest of the weekend -

 

[stumblinhorse]

Man just when I thought I was headed in the right direction. Thank you again stumblinhorse. I will hope to get some resolve on Monday. I can only hope for the best. I will ask to see the repair work to confirm one way or another even if it is at the cost of another alignment. If by some crazy chance they did not have to drill / expand the hole - I will more than likely change to adjustable control arms. If not I suppose I will live
with it. I am not an off roader so guess in this instance may be a plus. This will be I think my 6th or 7th (TJs and JKs) Wrangler and sounds like it now may be the one that will be with me from here on out. I started with half door with zip windows to roll up windows and so on finally getting to something really enjoyable. Im 57 so won't have to worry about it a lengthy amount of time . Will give a final report on Monday.

Have a good rest of the weekend -

Install instructions. I mispoke as these are advertised for a JL.

https://www.spcalignment.com/instructions/82375-INS_WEB.pdf

 

[DGD]

stumblinhorse -

I do have a couple of questions. If the control arm holes have been altered - would it be a better decision to keep the longer factory Mopar LCAs - add the Synergy Jeep Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit
and also GEO brackets ? Or better to go with adjustable control arms and the cam bolt eliminator kit ?
I noticed that the link you included stated they were for the JK. I can not seem to find a set specific to the JL. Would they be interchangeable in your opinion ? I want to do what would be considered the best / safest solution. (did not know there would be alteration made when using the cam bolts or would not have gone that route) unless a dealership okayed and warrantied.

Being a non off roader - my main concern from the beginning was making sure to stay within the factory warranty and also the extended Max Care Extended Service contract I purchased. . It is 8 years / 85k miles. Miles are easy for me to keep under. Im actually more concerned about motor longevity than anything else but purchased it to protect the rest of the vehicle as well.
I purchased the lifetime Max Care service contract for my 2015 JK and in 2022 had to have the rear axle replaced. (long story short). Dealership attempted to rebuild and gears would not spec. so they replaced instead. I asked to see the bill that Chrysler was paying. $9200.00. Not exactly an inexpensive repair so the service contract more than paid for itself. Anyway enough rambling. I would appreciate your input to the questions above.

Thank you again -
Don

 

[stumblinhorse]

stumblinhorse -

I do have a couple of questions. If the control arm holes have been altered - would it be a better decision to keep the longer factory Mopar LCAs - add the Synergy Jeep Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit
and also GEO brackets ? Or better to go with adjustable control arms and the cam bolt eliminator kit ?
I noticed that the link you included stated they were for the JK. I can not seem to find a set specific to the JL. Would they be interchangeable in your opinion ? I want to do what would be considered the best / safest solution. (did not know there would be alteration made when using the cam bolts or would not have gone that route) unless a dealership okayed and warrantied.

Being a non off roader - my main concern from the beginning was making sure to stay within the factory warranty and also the extended Max Care Extended Service contract I purchased. . It is 8 years / 85k miles. Miles are easy for me to keep under. Im actually more concerned about motor longevity than anything else but purchased it to protect the rest of the vehicle as well.
I purchased the lifetime Max Care service contract for my 2015 JK and in 2022 had to have the rear axle replaced. (long story short). Dealership attempted to rebuild and gears would not spec. so they replaced instead. I asked to see the bill that Chrysler was paying. $9200.00. Not exactly an inexpensive repair so the service contract more than paid for itself. Anyway enough rambling. I would appreciate your input to the questions above.

Thank you again -
Don

Those are tough questions. If you plan on staying at stock 392 height, the mopar 2” lift LCAs should get you a good amount of caster on their own. Geo brackets could easily be added and you could use the close holes to start to see if more caster is needed, and move to the second set to feel the difference. I would also try either of the fox TS stabilizers. The adjustable one might be worth the extra $ so you can see if stiffer or softer helps your feel. Fully adjustable LCAs are really nice if you truly want to dial in an exact spec, but there isn’t any of those mopar will cover under warranty. AEV geo brackets shouldn’t be a problem for your warranty.

Eliminating the elongated holes with might be better done with the dodge truck version of the elimination kit. Since it fills the entire space.

Synergy 1999-2013 Dodge Ram 1500 / 2500 / 3500 Stepped Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit

Synergy 1999-2013 Dodge Ram 1500 / 2500 / 3500 Stepped Cam Bolt Eliminator Kit

www.synergymfg.com

There will not be a cam elimination kit for a JL since it should never have them

 

[DGD]

Good morning stumblinhorse -

Again thank you for a detailed response. It gives me knowledgeable options to deal with the situation. It will be okay one way or another hopefully. I will follow up in the next several days once everything has been sorted at Mike's. BTW I do like that eliminator kit for the Dodge if needed.

 

[Shark01]

I only tend to comment on things I know about, so I can’t help the OP with his issue.

However, at some point the OP stated he was sure there was never any damage because the CarFax was clean. While I don’t know anything about this rig, he super careful about “trusting” a CarFax report. Since any ding on the report can cause a 20% value reduction or more, people are now often using methods to avoid an incident being reported.

 

[DGD]

Hi Shark01 -

Thank you very much for your input. I realize this and also mentioned it one of my posts. "Carfax does not show anything and there are no mentions in the history of services of any steering complaints. BTW I do realize Carfax may not know everything".
I do not believe nor does either dealership that I took the Jeep to believe that it has been in any kind of accident. Also it was purchased via a gentleman here on the forum and would believe he would have noted. I do still speak with him when / if needed. Also as mentioned there are others dealing with this or a similar issue with steering / tracking.
I am addressing the problem now and will be back with a final report for those following. I do again thank you for your message.

Don

 

[Turboencabulator]

I think I mentioned it in my post about must do upgrades, the mopar 2” lift front LCAs are a must do. Especially if you are not lifting any additional. The longer LCAs will make the Jeep handle better. The second upgrade needed is a steering stabilizer. Both the LCAs and stabilizer are the same ones that come on the lowest model of JL Sport. If you plan on staying stock, these upgrades in my mind are required to truly enjoy a 392.

So I want to share my jeep's two left feet experience. When I drove my 392 home from the showroom floor the first thing I noticed is it pulled left as well, it was much more noticeable at freeway speeds. Faster speeds = faster pull forces... makes sense. Checked the tires when I got home... they were were 43psi. Factory does that on purpose for transport. Dropped it to 32 and the pull got better... but it still pulled a little to the left. Rotated the tires... still pulled left. Then I swapped the steering stabilizer for a Fox Factory ATS 2.0. That fixed it. Dead straight. I think el cheepo Mopar JL Sport stabilizer design has a basic design flaw of not being neutrally stabile the way a thru-shaft system like the Fox or Falcon Nexus is. As a side note while the Fox ATS 2.0 was nicely made the bracket was total junk, very poor alignment, made it super challenging to get it to line up with the bolts. If I could do it again I would go Terraflex Falcon, it has to be a better made bracket and all I need is 3 settings.

So @stumblinhorse I have been tracking strait for 10,000mi, am I missing something without those lower LCA? I have always been a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" guy, but do you think it is that much better with those longer arms? I have never swapped out control arms, is it just a basic job, swap some bolts and torque to spec? Also if anyone knows the Mopar part numbers I would appreciate it. Don't want to buy the wrong part.
Thanks!

 

[@JC]

As a side note while the Fox ATS 2.0 was nicely made the bracket was total junk, very poor alignment, made it super challenging to get it to line up with the bolts.

Maybe you got an early one or just a badly fit one, mine Fox ATS 2.0 went on perfectly with the very well made bracket.

So @stumblinhorse I have been tracking strait for 10,000mi, am I missing something without those lower LCA? I have always been a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" guy, but do you think it is that much better with those longer arms? I have never swapped out control arms, is it just a basic job, swap some bolts and torque to spec? Also if anyone knows the Mopar part numbers I would appreciate it. Don't want to buy the wrong part.
Thanks!

The Mopar extended front LCAs are an easy swap, at least they were for me. Put a box end wrench on one side and a high torque Dewalt impact on the other and whirrr they came out easy. I did use a floor jack to slightly lift the 1st side front tire just a hair off the ground to get the slight extra length needed to line up the holes on the new LCA. When that one was in it then pushed the other side forward a hair so I used a ratchet strap to pull the 2nd side back in to fit the bolt without any issues. All in all very simple, hardest part is pulling 190 ft-lbs on the torque wrench (all 4 bolts) to lock them in there.

 

[stumblinhorse]

So I want to share my jeep's two left feet experience. When I drove my 392 home from the showroom floor the first thing I noticed is it pulled left as well, it was much more noticeable at freeway speeds. Faster speeds = faster pull forces... makes sense. Checked the tires when I got home... they were were 43psi. Factory does that on purpose for transport. Dropped it to 32 and the pull got better... but it still pulled a little to the left. Rotated the tires... still pulled left. Then I swapped the steering stabilizer for a Fox Factory ATS 2.0. That fixed it. Dead straight. I think el cheepo Mopar JL Sport stabilizer design has a basic design flaw of not being neutrally stabile the way a thru-shaft system like the Fox or Falcon Nexus is. As a side note while the Fox ATS 2.0 was nicely made the bracket was total junk, very poor alignment, made it super challenging to get it to line up with the bolts. If I could do it again I would go Terraflex Falcon, it has to be a better made bracket and all I need is 3 settings.
View attachment 20536
So @stumblinhorse I have been tracking strait for 10,000mi, am I missing something without those lower LCA? I have always been a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" guy, but do you think it is that much better with those longer arms? I have never swapped out control arms, is it just a basic job, swap some bolts and torque to spec? Also if anyone knows the Mopar part numbers I would appreciate it. Don't want to buy the wrong part.
Thanks!

The mopar LCAs are just a geometry thing. If you were to get an alignment check you would see that your caster is right at the lowest number allowed for a JL. That is because the factory lift of 1.5” is using the same LCAs as a sport JL. More caster will make the jeep track straight, have less tramlining and the steering will find center quicker.. Many people describe the lack of caster as “vague” steering.

So in short, the mopar LCAs just get your caster number up to where they should have been when it left the factory.

Only issue with the swap out is the torque spec. 190 is a lot. They are hard to get loose and hard to get them tight. I didn’t train at a dealership, so I don’t impact wrench stuff. There is not a lot of room to get them loose and tight laying on the ground. If you have a way to raise the Jeep safely by the tires or axles and keep it stationary then you are golden. I did mine on the ground. Doable, but I am built like a silverback monkey and will say I don’t know of many other people that could do it that way.

 

[Fast-n-Furious]

@Turboencabulator regarding the Mopar 1/4" longer LCAs 68322798AA, here is the report I got the other day, stock XR. And I've ordered the LCAs to gain some caster angle, maybe to 5.8 or 6 I'd guess. But 4.3/4.6 does seems very low. The 392 comes with the same LCAs 68250242AB, which are the same ones used on all JLs. Mine has been driving very well so far, but I'm need a new project to buy some new tools to play with.