Whipple supercharger Installation

[hardhat]

Ignore the video because the phone is just laying in my lap. Just listen to the audio. I ran a hoseoff of the place where the stock intake air sensor went and put a valve and a filter on it where I can turn it off, and it won’t suck any dirt into the engine and pipedthat into the cabin. Vehicle is just about dialed in the smooth boost works great and it is significantly more powerful than Stock and sounds really good. Just about to the point where all I’m gonna do is drive it I think I got the belt chirp sorted out. One of the pulleys was a little bit out of line and I was able to press it on the bearing about an eighth of an inch to correct the misalignment and I went with a fleet runner gate green belt and everything seems to be working perfectly. I’m going to do some more data logging for drivability and Chris Ward at say when tuning contacted HP tuners about adding some data point including shift ID apparently this is something they can do in their software at HP tuners and unlock more things to adjust on the computer and he says we will be able to adjust off-road plus mode because right now we can’t see what tables it is drawing from . At least that is my understanding.

 

[Canadian 392]

Is SayWhen tuning you remotely or are you local to them? Are they using HP Tuners?
I’m about to install a cam and headers this weekend and will need a tune. I would like to use someone familiar with the JL392’s

Please update us on the progress with your cam and headers
Perhaps start a new topic and share the goodness

 

[Noobicon]

Please update us on the progress with your cam and headers
Perhaps start a new topic and share the goodness

It’s up and running well! Completed a second day of remote tuning yesterday. RPMs still dip a bit when coming to a stop but everything else has been sorted out. I did add a wideband, AEM 30-0334. It has a pass through OBD connector that lets hp tuners pick up the reading and appears in the data logs which was pretty slick (and easy to set up). I don’t plan to mount the gauge permanently in the cab. For just cam/headers I don’t see a need to constantly monitor my a/f ratio.

Sorry for the hijack, here’s an idle vid

 

[hardhat]

I love that sound. Looking forward to doing 426, cam, headers and moving whipple over to it in a few years or sooner if my current rig blows up. Feels very solid IAT's are good. No knock retard. Running low boost. Highest I've seen is 5.2 psi right at redline and it normally just touches 5psi near redline and is about 4.5 psi in midrange WOT, but make no mistake.....this adds a significant amount of power and the blower sounds are awesome. Took a little trip with family yesterday so had it in quiet mode and you can really hear the blower whistling and whining at lower rpms at part throttle. Sounds freaking awesome and is not at all obnoxious. I love it. Jeep is so much more responsive (and it was already a beast). Still got to get offroad + tables tuned and waiting on hptuners to get it sorted out so the tuner can see those parameters, but very happy with overall product. Belt chirp 99% resolved with green belt. Had a little chirp yesterday morning for less than a minute and absolutely none today. I'm keeping the AEM wideband gauge and also have an aeroforce interceptor gauge that runs off the OBD II that shows IAT and boost (or whatever you want).

I think your tuner can get that rpm drop sorted out. That is a pretty common occurrence with cams.

 

[Canadian 392]

I love that sound. Looking forward to doing 426, cam, headers and moving whipple over to it in a few years or sooner if my current rig blows up. Feels very solid IAT's are good. No knock retard. Running low boost. Highest I've seen is 5.2 psi right at redline and it normally just touches 5psi near redline and is about 4.5 psi in midrange WOT, but make no mistake.....this adds a significant amount of power and the blower sounds are awesome. Took a little trip with family yesterday so had it in quiet mode and you can really hear the blower whistling and whining at lower rpms at part throttle. Sounds freaking awesome and is not at all obnoxious. I love it. Jeep is so much more responsive (and it was already a beast). Still got to get offroad + tables tuned and waiting on hptuners to get it sorted out so the tuner can see those parameters, but very happy with overall product. Belt chirp 99% resolved with green belt. Had a little chirp yesterday morning for less than a minute and absolutely none today. I'm keeping the AEM wideband gauge and also have an aeroforce interceptor gauge that runs off the OBD II that shows IAT and boost (or whatever you want).

I think your tuner can get that rpm drop sorted out. That is a pretty common occurrence with cams.

Thank you for updating us!

 

[Noobicon]

Hardhat I was quite tempted to go with your tuner! I just figured Dusterhoff had the cam specs and would be best to tune for it. I did have to get with HP Tuners to update the vcm and TDN app to recognize all channels of my Jeep, apparently the 26’s were not in their system yet but they provided an update in just 2 days and they all work now. Hopefully they can get those OffRoad+ parameters added relatively soon.

Glad to hear all is well with the Whipple. I was tempted to order a 426 shortblock, put the cam in it, and then just swap engines (might have been easier) but figured I’d go your route and just make use of the stock block until it gives up (if ever). Not sure
if I’ll ever add a Whipple so the stock engine may last me as long as I own the Jeep

 

[Winston]

It’s up and running well! Completed a second day of remote tuning yesterday. RPMs still dip a bit when coming to a stop but everything else has been sorted out. I did add a wideband, AEM 30-0334. It has a pass through OBD connector that lets hp tuners pick up the reading and appears in the data logs which was pretty slick (and easy to set up). I don’t plan to mount the gauge permanently in the cab. For just cam/headers I don’t see a need to constantly monitor my a/f ratio.

Sorry for the hijack, here’s an idle vid

This is the sound playing at the gates of heaven.

 

[hardhat]

Update.. was working with remote tuning, but ended up in a situation where to get everything perfect would require dyno tuning due the volumetric efficiency changes due to supercharger vs stock intake. Trims were higher than I liked and there is only so much you can do with remote tuning. To get it completely dialed in I was told that it would require multiple passes on the dyno to get the neural network tables dialed in completely.......so I decided to dive into the tuning a bit myself. Neural network tuning is a bit complicated due to having 25 ve tables based on intake and exhaust cam positions. Our machines primarly use 5 tables where the exhaust and intake numbers sum to 241 (iirc) because we only have 1 cam and so exhaust and intake move together. . I fiddled with this and datalogged based on fuel trims at that appropriate cam angles. Paid the 50 bucks to have access to nn training for a month. The changes I applied were not having the appopriate impacts on trims at the desired rpm and pressure points, so went with a different strategy. Turned neural network off. This forces machine to rely on VE tables in the speed density part of airflow. Contrary to what some may say....you DO not have to turn VVT off. So the cam still moves just like it did in the stock tune. The cam moves very rapidly in response to throttle or pressure changes and I have not noted any significant transient problems related to this. If I did, I could smooth the cam transitions a bit but so far have not had to. Have got trims down to 5% or less across the board and commanded vs actual EQ is within 5%. Have got AFR set to 11.5:1 at WOT and error are on the rich side for most part. Not seeing any leaner than 11.8:1 and I'm only seeing 5 psi max...Most of the time around 4.7 psi. This is with a 3.75 pulley instead of the stock 3.5 pulley. The thing really is running nice now. Had to change knock settings at 2000 rpm due to getting false knock when launching. The interesting thing here is when I was trying to get it to go away, I increased knock threshold across the board at 2k rpm and this worked...On further looking noted that several of the cylinders had much lower knock voltage thresholds than others and so ended up going back and just bumping those 3 cylinders up a bit and was able to leave the others alone. It is interesting that the computer only "listens" to the knock sensor during a specific window after each cylinder firsts and the trigger voltages are pretty wildly different from one cylinder to another probably based on how far cylinder is from sound pickup. I figured drivetrain noise would be random and thus I only needed to increase the trigger voltage on the most sensitive cylinders. So the rest of the cylinders are stock sensitivity and I'm not getting any false knock during launch.

Gave it its first real test today. Towed jetskis to river. Worked beautifully. Never saw 195 degrees coolant temp and most of the time solid at 185 with creeping up to 190 on long hills. Pulled like a freight train. So effortless. Cool supercharger noises. I absolutely love it. Very happy with current tune. I can stand on it and it significantly stronger than stock. Just makes the Jeep feel lighter and it is shocking how fast 90 mph comes.

Time will tell if the tune will hold up to major changes in ambient temperature, but there are tables to adjust ve related to coolant and air temperature, so lots of levers to pull. Going to look at doing some transmission tuning as well, but nothing too crazy here. Really happy with the way it is now.

It is just cool as hell and what a blessing to be able to fiddle with this kind of stuff. So rewarding to see projects like this come together and work. The darned thing is running cooler than it did stock. The 180 degree thermostat made a huge difference. I even averaged over 11 mpg pulling the jet skis today. It was only 85 degrees today, but IAT less than 120 on the highway and just no signs of any kind of weakness or concern at this point.

Hoping to run the bad boy like this for a few years and 40k miles. When 100k miles gets here or if I have an engine failure, will upgrade to 426 stroker and crank up the boost.

Oh....the smoothboost is wonderful. Makes the bypass valve predictable and smooth instead of the on/off switch that is the vacuum operated boost valve. This would be an absolute must for me on any PD blower install. The guys made me a special bracket that is basically a mirror image of the RAM bracket and it fits great.

HP tuners and VCM are great tuning tools. To dial in VE, you can set up the VCM scanner log in the same increments as the VE table in HP tuners and just copy and paste special----multiply by % (the whole table) I did this over time and just took my average long and short fuel trims and divided them by 2 using a math funciton in VCM scanner and applied this change. In this way I just slowly moved to correct. When applying the entire percentage it would sometime overshoot due to the short term fuel trims sometimes bouncing a bit. This iterative method seems to work great. Also did a bit of manual smoothing if it looked like too big of a jump from cell to cell. I just ended up driving around with a laptop in the jeep for a few weeks while I was figuring all this crap out. I am no tuning expert by any means, but once you figure out what numbers make changes, it is not rocket science to do some basic stuff to dial things in better.

I kept the spark tables from the tuner and really did not mess with them other than to pull 1 degree at the top end where I was seeing 1 degree of knock retard. Only seeing occasional blips to 0.5 degree knock retard and from everything I read, this is fine.

 

[hardhat]

So final update for a while I think. Got the tuning dialed in. Running 11.5:1 WOT. Was having a little bit of stumbling at tip in from idle. It would go lean and then take off suddenly as short term trims compensated and then all was good. Made some adjustments to transient fuel gains and that fixed the problem (increased gain by 50% at lower rpm and higher temps).

Interestingly enough this also cured the little bit of lean stumble at idle that would happen every so often. I think when the computer was opening throttle a tiny bit at idle it triggered a transient lean and made the stumble worse until trims corrected it. The transient adjustment accidentally corrected this as well.

Jeep is running so nice now. I love it. Absolutely blew the doors off a person that was poking in front of me this morning. Just plain brutal. Think I am done with it now. Bumped up line pressures by 25% on upshifts and shifts are noticeably firmer without being jerky.

Good stuff.

 

[Noobicon]

That’s impressive on tuning it yourself! I’ll tear into just about anything mechanically, but when it comes to tuning I just don’t think I could bring myself to go through the learning process.

 

[hardhat]

That’s impressive on tuning it yourself! I’ll tear into just about anything mechanically, but when it comes to tuning I just don’t think I could bring myself to go through the learning process.

Definitely a steep learning curve. Some of the tables just flat don't work and you have to figure out where to make adjustments, but it is doable if you are willing to watch a bunch of youtube videos, ask chatGPT and experiment.

I did start with a tuner, and got a good base tune, but there is only so much emailing back and forth making 1 change at a time........plus I like tinkering and learning.
Just stay on rich side while experimenting and sneak up on your target air-fuel ratio and DO NOT STAY IN THE THROTTLE IF YOU ARE RUNNING LEAN OR HAVING DETONATION!!! One pull is all it takes to destroy your engine.

I plan on enlisting the help of a tuner again when I do the 426 down the road. At least my current rig is not too far off from stock since it is just the blower, injectors and TMAP sensor that is changed from factory.

 

[OldVetteGuy]

So finally broke down and ordered a whipple kit.

Whipple WK-3170-30 Gen 6 3.0L Supercharger Kit for 21-25 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JL 392 6.4L HEMI

Whipple WK-3170-30 Gen 6 3.0L Supercharger Kit for 21-25 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited JL 392 6.4L HEMI

highhorseperformance.com

On sale for $7816.59 through Monday Dec 1. Free shipping and no tax to my state. Too good of a deal for me to pass up.

My plan is to get a slighter larger pulley to drop boost down to 5-5.5 psi instead of 6-7 (best I can tell that is where the stock kit runs). This plus a 180 degree thermostat, fans on at lower temp and a very conservative tune should still net a significant horsepower increase with a larger margin of safety than the base supercharger kit (which presumably has some safety margin already built in).

Hoping to get a power increase with a bit of supercharger whine. Hopefully can keep the s&b intake as it should make the whine louder.

This whipple kit should be good for down the road as well when going to a built motor...stroker, cam, etc and turning up the knob more. Then the drivetrain will be the weak point.

Hardhat, I am sure all us gear-heads are looking forward to your exploits while doing this project! Hope it all goes well!

 

[hardhat]

2k mile update. Got the tuning sorted out and no longer running around with a laptop. Really running great. Startup squeak gone with green belt and minor pulley alignment adjustment. Took it on a 3 hour road trip and averaged 14.6 mpg going 80 most of the way. All in all very pleased with the install, sound and performance. It really is crazy fast when passing people and taking off from a standstill. Just freakin awesome. At this point, glad I did it. Will see what future brings, but really enjoying the insanity right now. Still drives no nice too. Running in quiet mode the top down can still have a conversation or put in in loud mode and create chaos . Unless something really changes, I'm looking at driving a 392 Wrangler for a long time. Most enjoyable vehicle I've ever driven.

 

[hardhat]

Little over 6k miles on blower. No issues. Changed oil today and all looked good. No oil in catch can which was surprising, but the vacuum is sucking and the PCV valve is functional. So maybe where the blower PCV is located there is not much oil mist. Anyways, engine is running good. I've had to do a couple update tunes due to my long term trims correcting some errors in the VE table. It applies those changes in closed loop to the WOT open loop, but not a big deal and all seems good. These cooler temps as we get into fall make the engine stronger as well. I don't know if I can wait another 35k miles to put the 426 and FRP Titan II cam in it. Already used to the extra power, but more than the power, I love the sound of the blower. You can hear that thing especially driving around town and the muted whine is just so stinking cool.

For the cam guys out there, how bad does it make the jeep shake at idle and what rpm do things smooth out. Looking for a good chop sound at idle, but still feeling as smooth as possible and definitely want it to be smooth on the highway. Never had a car with a lopey cam......

 

[OldVetteGuy]

Little over 6k miles on blower. No issues. Changed oil today and all looked good. No oil in catch can which was surprising, but the vacuum is sucking and the PCV valve is functional. So maybe where the blower PCV is located there is not much oil mist. Anyways, engine is running good. I've had to do a couple update tunes due to my long term trims correcting some errors in the VE table. It applies those changes in closed loop to the WOT open loop, but not a big deal and all seems good. These cooler temps as we get into fall make the engine stronger as well. I don't know if I can wait another 35k miles to put the 426 and FRP Titan II cam in it. Already used to the extra power, but more than the power, I love the sound of the blower. You can hear that thing especially driving around town and the muted whine is just so stinking cool.

For the cam guys out there, how bad does it make the jeep shake at idle and what rpm do things smooth out. Looking for a good chop sound at idle, but still feeling as smooth as possible and definitely want it to be smooth on the highway. Never had a car with a lopey cam......

Haha, There is nothing more pleasing then a loping cam and a blower wine while sitting at stoplight! I have many a fond memory of my 68 Nova with a 427 running a 671 blower on it. Just punch the throttle and hold on, wow, those were the days!