Hinge corrosion

[mini2nut]

I did a lot of homework on this issue.

Apparently Jeep uses unprimed aluminum hinges and bolts them to unprimed aluminum doors. They are fastened with steel bolts which leads to galvanic corrosion.

 

[jandersendo]

I did a lot of homework on this issue.

Apparently Jeep uses unprimed aluminum hinges and bolts them to unprimed aluminum doors. They are fastened with steel bolts which leads to galvanic corrosion.

This is correct.

 

[nismo1013]

I did a lot of homework on this issue.

Apparently Jeep uses unprimed aluminum hinges and bolts them to unprimed aluminum doors. They are fastened with steel bolts which leads to galvanic corrosion.

Is there consensus on a proper fix?

 

[jandersendo]

Is there consensus on a proper fix?

Afaik there isn’t one. Most let the dealers fix it; some say it hasn’t returned in X years of ownership, whereas some say it returns 6 months later.

 

[nismo1013]

Afaik there isn’t one. Most let the dealers fix it; some say it hasn’t returned in X years of ownership, whereas some say it returns 6 months later.

Closest correlation I've seen is sailboats, where steel bolts are screwed into an aluminum mast. Sailors are using this product to protect against corrosion and seem pleased with the result.

Ultra Tef-Gel

Wonder if it would help here?

 

[jandersendo]

Closest correlation I've seen is sailboats, where steel bolts are screwed into an aluminum mast. Sailors are using this product to protect against corrosion and seem pleased with the result.

Ultra Tef-Gel

Wonder if it would help here?

You would have to unbolt your hinges and risk breaking that paint seal as well as damaging the bolts as they are installed prior to painting at the factory. If you’re changing out hinges then yes, this makes sense but just to damage the hinges that are there put this in my opinion might make Pandora’s box open

 

[mini2nut]

Apparently the bean counters rule at Stellantis. They would rather pay millions in warranty claims than introduce a permanent solution.

 

[jandersendo]

Apparently the bean counters rule at Stellantis. They would rather pay millions in warranty claims than introduce a permanent solution.

We’ll they probably figure not everyone will bring it to be repaired. And it’s not like it’s hindering sales

 

[jandersendo]

Any issues yet?

 

[Shockerracing]

Our 2018 MojitoJeep ended up having all 4 doors and the hood repainted in the last year because of it.

 

[Viking Jeeper]

Our 2018 MojitoJeep ended up having all 4 doors and the hood repainted in the last year because of it.

Was it driven in the snow with salt on the ground? Hoping I can avoid it here in FL. I know it may be caused by dissimilar metal but the salt sure helps it.

 

[Shockerracing]

Was it driven in the snow with salt on the ground? Hoping I can avoid it here in FL. I know it may be caused by dissimilar metal but the salt sure helps it.

It's not daily driven, but we are here in Chicago and have had it out in the winters with salt.

 

[drummr25]

Afaik there isn’t one. Most let the dealers fix it; some say it hasn’t returned in X years of ownership, whereas some say it returns 6 months later.

When it happened on my 2015 JK, I brought it in just before the factory 3yr/36K warranty expired and it was fixed perfectly. Had the Jeep another 5+yrs and there were zero issues.

 

[Rjezonie]

Bubbles, bubbles everywhere, but not a drop to drink...

Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971) clip with quote Bubbles, bubbles everywhere, but not a drop to drink... Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to...

getyarn.io

Bubbles, bubbles everywhere and not a drop to drink!

 

[392OVRLND]

So... I'm going to weigh in here with a few things...

Firstly, I have seen the galvanic corrosion due to the dissimilar metals theory, but given where a lot of these paint bubbles first present themselve (on the door), I think the whole theory that "the steel bolt through the hinge and door is causing galvanic corrosion" is less likely to be true than another theory that I have heard floated, and that is...

Poultice corrosion.

The theory goes... Due to Jeep not (or was not) properly prepping the aluminum for paint and in part due to the unprimed contact point between the hinge and the door panel and poor paintwork around where the hinge and the door panel meet, the paint at the contact point is very thin and easily disrupted or compromised, allowing for a breach point in the paint to be easily created through which water can enter (if a breach point doesn't already exist from poor paintwork at the factory - I have seen some really terrible paint coverage around the hinges on brand new Jeeps sitting on dealer lots). Due to aluminum's nature, it forms an oxide coating when exposed to the elements, but paint arrests the formation of this oxide coating... until the paint is disturbed or compromised. Water gets in through this breach point and then it's all downhill from there.

I am going to copy and paste and explanation of this process from a boating website, because it's written better than I could write it, and I will supply the source link...

"The paint works well until it is breached, and water enters the rift. This breach could be caused by a fastener, an antenna base, a navigation light, a hinge, a lockset, a nick, or a scratch—and it could be microscopic. Initially the wound is self-healing: The oxide coating forms, but instead of protecting the aluminum, it lifts the edge of the paint and allows water to migrate farther under the coating. At that point, the chemical equation changes, as moisture and aluminum, in the absence of air, are the ideal incubators for a phenomenon known as poultice corrosion. When this happens, the aluminum pits and produces copious amounts of aluminum oxide powder or, when wet, aluminum hydroxide, which looks a bit like freezer-burned vanilla ice cream. The formation of the oxide or hydroxide lifts the paint, causing the familiar and unsightly blister, which eventually falls off, exposing raw, pitted aluminum. The process doesn’t stop there, as it begins anew at the interface between the paint and exposed aluminum. While it progresses slowly, once it begins it’s difficult if not impossible to arrest without removing the blistered paint, cleaning, priming, and repainting the surface.

I think this is much more likely to be the culprit, as if it were the bolts, then we would see the corrosion issue start at the bolt and work its way out. The overwhelming majority of paint bubbling issues I have seen are around the hinges, but they don't start at the hinge and work their way outward. They start on the door around the point where the hinge and the door meet, and the paint is thin.

Keeping Paint on Aluminum - Professional BoatBuilder: An IBEX Technical Journal

Professional BoatBuilder Technical Editor Steve D'Antonio describes how to prevent paint from corroding on aluminum surfaces.

www.proboat.com

Secondly, I want to remind everyone that the internet is an echo chamber. While it seems like there are a lot of reports of paint bubbling when you get on forums and Facebook groups (and frankly TOO many reports, if we are being honest), the number of reports are only a small fraction of the total Jeeps produced each year... Again, this issue has been going on too long and has affected too many people and it absolutely should be addressed by Jeep, however... I think if we looked at total production numbers of JKs and JLs produced versus total number of JKs and JLs affected by this issue, we'd see it is a rather small portion of the whole. I had a 2015 JK (since sold), and I'm in Colorado and it was driven a lot in the winter months between 2016 and 2021, and I never had a paint issue around the hinges. My 2021 JL was has no signs of the issue either. It almost feels a bit like Russian Roulette with better odds.

That being said, I sincerely hope Jeep has done something to address whatever the catalyst is for the corrosion because I certainly do not want my soon-to-be-built 392 experiencing the issue.

 

[jandersendo]

So... I'm going to weigh in here with a few things...

Firstly, I have seen the galvanic corrosion due to the dissimilar metals theory, but given where a lot of these paint bubbles first present themselve (on the door), I think the whole theory that "the steel bolt through the hinge and door is causing galvanic corrosion" is less likely to be true than another theory that I have heard floated, and that is...

Poultice corrosion.

The theory goes... Due to Jeep not (or was not) properly prepping the aluminum for paint and in part due to the unprimed contact point between the hinge and the door panel and poor paintwork around where the hinge and the door panel meet, the paint at the contact point is very thin and easily disrupted or compromised, allowing for a breach point in the paint to be easily created through which water can enter (if a breach point doesn't already exist from poor paintwork at the factory - I have seen some really terrible paint coverage around the hinges on brand new Jeeps sitting on dealer lots). Due to aluminum's nature, it forms an oxide coating when exposed to the elements, but paint arrests the formation of this oxide coating... until the paint is disturbed or compromised. Water gets in through this breach point and then it's all downhill from there.

I am going to copy and paste and explanation of this process from a boating website, because it's written better than I could write it, and I will supply the source link...

"The paint works well until it is breached, and water enters the rift. This breach could be caused by a fastener, an antenna base, a navigation light, a hinge, a lockset, a nick, or a scratch—and it could be microscopic. Initially the wound is self-healing: The oxide coating forms, but instead of protecting the aluminum, it lifts the edge of the paint and allows water to migrate farther under the coating. At that point, the chemical equation changes, as moisture and aluminum, in the absence of air, are the ideal incubators for a phenomenon known as poultice corrosion. When this happens, the aluminum pits and produces copious amounts of aluminum oxide powder or, when wet, aluminum hydroxide, which looks a bit like freezer-burned vanilla ice cream. The formation of the oxide or hydroxide lifts the paint, causing the familiar and unsightly blister, which eventually falls off, exposing raw, pitted aluminum. The process doesn’t stop there, as it begins anew at the interface between the paint and exposed aluminum. While it progresses slowly, once it begins it’s difficult if not impossible to arrest without removing the blistered paint, cleaning, priming, and repainting the surface.

I think this is much more likely to be the culprit, as if it were the bolts, then we would see the corrosion issue start at the bolt and work its way out. The overwhelming majority of paint bubbling issues I have seen are around the hinges, but they don't start at the hinge and work their way outward. They start on the door around the point where the hinge and the door meet, and the paint is thin.

Keeping Paint on Aluminum - Professional BoatBuilder: An IBEX Technical Journal

Professional BoatBuilder Technical Editor Steve D'Antonio describes how to prevent paint from corroding on aluminum surfaces.

www.proboat.com

Secondly, I want to remind everyone that the internet is an echo chamber. While it seems like there are a lot of reports of paint bubbling when you get on forums and Facebook groups (and frankly TOO many reports, if we are being honest), the number of reports are only a small fraction of the total Jeeps produced each year... Again, this issue has been going on too long and has affected too many people and it absolutely should be addressed by Jeep, however... I think if we looked at total production numbers of JKs and JLs produced versus total number of JKs and JLs affected by this issue, we'd see it is a rather small portion of the whole. I had a 2015 JK (since sold), and I'm in Colorado and it was driven a lot in the winter months between 2016 and 2021, and I never had a paint issue around the hinges. My 2021 JL was has no signs of the issue either. It almost feels a bit like Russian Roulette with better odds.

That being said, I sincerely hope Jeep has done something to address whatever the catalyst is for the corrosion because I certainly do not want my soon-to-be-built 392 experiencing the issue.

Agree wholeheartedly.

I am in New England. When I found out about this issue I looked at every JL I could find in a parking lot. I'd say my results are 50/50. I saw as bad as bubbling all over the bottom of the doors, away from the hinges to nothing at all. Obviously I can't tell you mileage or any history of the Jeeps I saw but do know I saw some without issue and some that probably would make your eyes water.

 

[392OVRLND]

Agree wholeheartedly.

I am in New England. When I found out about this issue I looked at every JL I could find in a parking lot. I'd say my results are 50/50. I saw as bad as bubbling all over the bottom of the doors, away from the hinges to nothing at all. Obviously I can't tell you mileage or any history of the Jeeps I saw but do know I saw some without issue and some that probably would make your eyes water.

Thanks for bringing that up. I had almost forgotten about it, because you see more people posting pictures of bubbling around the hinges, but I have been pictures posted to forums and facebook groups of JLs with bubbling beginning around the bottom of the doors where there is only aluminum, nowhere close to where the bolt goes through the hinge into the door.

If you watch videos of the Wrangler production lines, they show you how the Jeeps are painted, and I think this is part of the problem. They're sprayed (both paint and primer) in a more automated way, by robotic arms that are surely programmed for efficient use of materials above all else. Then, the paint inspection and refinement process sees the Wranglers never stop moving on the production line. You can literally see people using paint buffers while they are walking next to a Wrangler that is moving down the production line. This is not how this step should be done.

I really wish Jeep would use the process that BMW, Porsche, and other German manufacturers use for painting vehicles... I'll use BMW as an example, because there are a lot of videos of the process out there. First the body is worked and buffed by hand in preparation for paint. Then, the vehicle chassis is ionized and the chassis goes through a degreasing / cleaning "bath" and then an ionized primer "bath" which is a CDP (cathodic dip painting) process, which is highly resistant to corrosion, and helps ensure full coverage of the entire chassis in primer to protect the metal.

After it goes through the primer bath, it is buffed by robot, and then the vehicle cassis is worked over by humans that are inspecting and refining the primer coat (checking for and fixing imperfections in the primer coat, as well as spraying any thin areas in the primer). This is done while the vehicles are STOPPED, in a booth. After this, the ionized, primed chassis is sprayed by a robot using ionized paint, which causes an attraction between the oppositely-charged paint and chassis, and causes the paint to stick to the chassis and reduces the amount of paint waste via overspray.

Obviously, there are a few more steps, and steps in between (baking the primer, baking the paint, buffing paint, inspecting paint, etc.), but that's the high-level process that ensures proper and even primer and paint coverage throughout the vehicle chassis.

For those interested in this stuff (I'm a car geek, and a process geek) they have even developed an overspray-free painting process for some of the additional painted graphics they use on certain models / BMW Individual models (video below).

And, the height of the painting process is achieved through the "BWM individual" paint jobs go through an even more exacting - and much more expensive - process (video below).

Jeep Wrangler painting process (video link set to start at 1:42)

BMW vehicle painting process:

BMW Overspray-free painting process:

BMW Individual Paint process:

 

[jandersendo]

Jeep Wrangler painting process (video link set to start at 1:42)

OMG that lady at 3:19 should never be touching a car...

 

[@JC]

I really wish Jeep would use the process that BMW, Porsche, and other German manufacturers use for painting vehicles...

That's cool and all but you know if BMW, Porsche, etc were building this 392 it would cost upwards of $140k+. I'll stick with Jeep, thanks.

 

[392OVRLND]

That's cool and all but you know if BMW, Porsche, etc were building this 392 it would cost upwards of $140k+. I'll stick with Jeep, thanks.

And yet, some people have paid upwards of $140K for them (crazy market).

Your whole comment is riddled with logical fallacy, considering I just said I would like to see Jeep use a similar paint process. I could also be argued that changing the paint process over to one like BMW, Porsche, and others use would actually save Jeep money. For one, they'd have less paint related warranty claims (which are expensive), secondly if you watch the videos of BMW's and Porsche's paint processes, you'll see fewer people involved during the paint process (look how many people are walking that paint inspection line in the Jeep videos checking and fixing paint while the Jeep is in motion on the line, versus TWO people involved for BMW and Porsche at the primer step and TWO people involved at the paint inspection step).

Keep in mind, the starting price of some BMWs (228i Gran Coupe - $36,600) are fairly close to the starting price of Wranglers ($30,945), and I assure you that price differential is not mostly attributed to the painting process. Some well-optioned and fully-loaded BMWs built here in the U.S. at the Spartanburg plant are quite a bit less expensive than a loaded Rubicon, let alone the 392 (a well-optioned X3 sDrive30i is in the $55K range).

But, sure, a better paint process would almost double the price of the 392...

(You know it costs $11,875 to have AEV custom paint the entire Jeep - inside and out - by hand in a custom color, right? That includes them removing basically everything on the inside and outside of the Jeep, and removing some parts around the outside of the engine bay, and then reassembling...)