Finally finished “tweaking” my AEV XR 392…

[392OVRLND]

hahaha good lord you're a weirdo. Easily the most insufferable person on this forum.

Fwiw you can take it up with Scott Blum. He's the one that posted on fb that prompted my question a year go. I'm sure you feel like you know more than that keyboard engineer though.

Weirdo? Insufferable? You lash out quite a bit with personal attacks when you're outmatched by someone educated, direct, unafraid of confrontation, and who doesn't waffle in their conviction, like some.

Scott, whom I'm sure I talk to directly on a more frequent basis than you (and with whom I have already shared a laugh today about your and others' misinterpretation of his job), is the product-planning manager for the Wrangler line. That would also mean that it is extremely likely that he was one of the people that would have been involved in the discussions about and decision to offer the Level II by AEV upfit on the 20A "from the factory" and under warranty... complete with AEV bumper and lights.

 

[guruman]

Man, this topic is my hot button. If I had $10 for every armchair automotive engineer that commented on Facebook or forum posts over the past decade about AEV bumpers and engine temps, I would have paid off my Jeep, the AEV build, and my previous Jeep with the earnings.

Despite living in Colorado, driving our high mountain passes all the time (both in the 392 and the 2.0T), wheeling all over this glorious state at slow speeds in high altitude where the air is less dense, and wheeling in the Utah desert (which still has plenty of altitude, though not the same as some of Colorado's high country trails) where temps at night can be over 100F, alongside friends that have AEV JKUs and JLUs with the 3.6L Pentastar and AEV JLUs with the EcoDiesel, none of my Jeeps or my friends many Jeeps with AEV bumpers have ever had a temperature issue.

People really should read up on fluid dynamics (of which, aerodynamics is a sub-discipline, since air moves like a fluid). Bumper hoops and lights don't block air and prevent it entirely from entering the grille. Air is certainly displaced (not blocked) by them, but wraps around them, and a turbulent wake is created behind them.

Analogy: Since air moves like a fluid, if one were able to drive the Jeep completely submerged underwater, do people actually think the bumper hoop and lights would block a significant amount of water from entering the slats in the grille? Dollars to Donuts, I think plenty of water would be getting through those grille slats in this scenario.

More food for thought... Do people think Jeep would have "endorsed" the AEV front bumper (by putting it on the 20th Anniversary Level II Edition) if there was an airflow issue that was going to affect engine temps, knowing full well they will have to honor their warranties on those Jeeps?

Last bite of thought-burger: The 392, in particular, has a functional hood scoop which helps it breathe and is not impeded by the AEV bumper or lights in any way.

I have two thoughts...

No engineering discussion about large hoop-style front bumpers would be complete without admitting that without a doubt, less air will flow through the radiator. Anything placed in the air stream in front of the grill will cause a high pressure zone directly in front of it as air piles up against the restriction. Some of that air will be diverted over, under, or around the Jeep. Certainly more than if there were no restriction in the way. Even a non-keyboard engineer would know this. A small sample size, antidotal, admittedly biased testimony, does not refute the actual engineering.

Is it a problem? In my experience with the ARB bumpers, ...no. But for some who are in situations where the cooling system is maxed out for whatever reason, it might make a difference, and from an actual engineering perspective that difference is NOT zero.


And... the hood scoop being unrestricted would only have a very negligible effect on the engine cooling and is not very relevant here.

 

[392OVRLND]

I have two thoughts...

No engineering discussion about large hoop-style front bumpers would be complete without admitting that without a doubt, less air will flow through the radiator. Anything placed in the air stream in front of the grill will cause a high pressure zone directly in front of it as air piles up against the restriction. Some of that air will be diverted over, under, or around the Jeep. Certainly more than if there were no restriction in the way. Even a non-keyboard engineer would know this. A small sample size, antidotal, admittedly biased testimony, does not refute the actual engineering.

Is it a problem? In my experience with the ARB bumpers, ...no. But for some who are in situations where the cooling system is maxed out for whatever reason, it might make a difference, and from an actual engineering perspective that difference is NOT zero.


And... the hood scoop being unrestricted would only have a very negligible effect on the engine cooling and is not very relevant here.

Agreed, the difference is not zero but, in my experience and the experience of many friends and countless other AEV customers that I interact with regularly, that net difference (regardless of engine) is not enough to affect engine cooling and push temperatures out of normal operating range (unless, as you mentioned, the cooling system is maxed out for whatever reason - but, in that situation, it is likely other issues at play... such as the cooling system not functioning normally).

With as finicky as some of AEV's customers are, if there were widespread overheating issues being caused by the bumper's hoop and the lights, you'd have heard about it. But, you don't. Instead, you hear speculation, but not real-world instances of overheating issues. And, in almost every case of speculation I have seen, various AEV customers have come along and testified that "it's a non-issue."

 

[dblplay1212]

Weirdo? Insufferable? You lash out quite a bit with personal attacks when you're outmatched by someone educated, direct, unafraid of confrontation, and who doesn't waffle in their conviction, like some.

Scott, whom I'm sure I talk to directly on a more frequent basis than you (and with whom I have already shared a laugh today about your and others' misinterpretation of his job), is the product-planning manager for the Wrangler line. That would also mean that it is extremely likely that he was one of the people that would have been involved in the discussions about and decision to offer the Level II by AEV upfit on the 20A "from the factory" and under warranty... complete with AEV bumper and lights.

Those conversations must not have been had when he posted about the airflow over a year ago, which prompted my question here. You know, the year old post that sent you on a rant.

I'm aware of his job. He's open about it. I only used "keyboard engineer" bc those were your terms to describe anyone that dare question an AEV design. In no way did I suggest he was an engineer. Not going to pretend we're great friends.

And yes, insufferable. You're an AEV fan boy to an exhausting degree. You literally quoted a year old post to rant about people asking questions about AEV. You were so hurt that Jeep added the AEV kit as an option to the 20A that you took to calling your Jeep the "20A prototype". You were posting your Jeep in literally every 20A thread/post on the internet, from here to fb. Your whole shtick is really weird.

I rarely post here, only did today bc you quoted me. Shame on me for even responding to your rant. If being an unpaid internet fan boy makes you happy, go for it. I just need to ignore it/you.

 

[dblplay1212]

AEV customers have come along and testified that "it's a non-issue."

Correct, most will say this and keep it moving. They don't go on rants about how people are dumb for not understanding the science and aerodynamics behind it. Shame on people for daring to ask a question about an aev design though.

 

[392OVRLND]

Those conversations must not have been had when he posted about the airflow over a year ago, which prompted my question here. You know, the year old post that sent you on a rant.

I'm aware of his job. He's open about it. I only used "keyboard engineer" bc those were your terms to describe anyone that dare question an AEV design. In no way did I suggest he was an engineer. Not going to pretend we're great friends.

And yes, insufferable. You're an AEV fan boy to an exhausting degree. You literally quoted a year old post to rant about people asking questions about AEV. You were so hurt that Jeep added the AEV kit as an option to the 20A that you took to calling your Jeep the "20A prototype". You were posting your Jeep in literally every 20A thread/post on the internet, from here to fb. Your whole shtick is really weird.

I rarely post here, only did today bc you quoted me. Shame on me for even responding to your rant. If being an unpaid internet fan boy makes you happy, go for it. I just need to ignore it/you.

My being a fan of their products extends beyond the bounds of the internet. I actually live somewhere I get to use my Jeep on a regular basis, and have put their products through their paces, in places like Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Arizona, etc... not the beaches of Daytona.

I also have quite a few friends that work at AEV (just got done wheeling with them in Moab, actually), and know that their products and brand take an overwhelming amount of flak on Facebook Jeep groups and forums from speculative people that have never driven one of their vehicles, so I'm more than willing to chime in and dice it up when I see speculation or misinformation.

You've also gotten the completely wrong impression about my feelings toward the Level II package. I'm absolutely ecstatic for AEV (and my friends that work there) that they earned a partnership with Jeep for the Level II. I know how hard these guys work on the demanding OE programs. From a garage in Montana to OE programs with Jeep and GM/Chevy (not to mention their imposing and capable PXL builds). Dave's story is incredible and I'm super happy for him and his team.

You just got bent from my teasing and chiding in the 20A thread and you're still bent. It's actually really amusing to me.

For a guy with 520 posts on this forum, who has commented about once a day on another thread I'm watching, you sure do "rarely" post.

 

[dblplay1212]

My being a fan of their products extends beyond the bounds of the internet.

Stopped here. We finally agree on something.

 

[Obi Wong Kenobi]

I have never seen more purse swinging on a forum before. Y’all just ruined a perfectly good thread of someone who was showing off his beautiful vehicle.

 

[392OVRLND]

I have never seen more purse swinging on a forum before. Y’all just ruined a perfectly good thread of someone who was showing off his beautiful vehicle.

You must be new to forums, then?

Also, the last time the OP replied to his own thread was 4/6/22, never mind that the last time he posted anything at all was 11/1/22...

 

[Obi Wong Kenobi]

You must be new to forums, then?

Also, the last time the OP replied to his own thread was 4/6/22, never mind that the last time he posted anything at all was 11/1/22...

You really want to argue with random internet strangers, huh?

 

[392OVRLND]

You really want to argue with random internet strangers, huh?

I don't consider making observations to be arguing.

 

[CAMEL2R]

View attachment 3094I changed out my Gold graphics to all black with a few custom touches from Underground Graphics, Rigid lighting on rear and just got her back from getting PPF done.View attachment 3084View attachment 3085View attachment 3086View attachment 3087View attachment 3088View attachment 3089View attachment 3090View attachment 3091View attachment 3093

Extremely nice rig!

I'm going a similar direction with my XR. I will be adding the AEV suspension and EX bumper, but keep the rest somewhat OEM. I like a clean look. One thing that sold me on AEV is the engineering that goes into it. Like better than OEM handling, built in rake, spring rates/shocks actually designed for the application, etc.

These are cool videos of the suspension install including component comparisons and a great explanation of the built-in rake to reduce nose dive.

Install:

Correction brackets/rake explanation: